G&L Tribute setup/intonation questions

JohnW63 · #1 10-29-2013, 07:25 PM

I've got a G&L Legacy Tribute guitar. I had it in a local shop to see if he could find an annoying sitar like sound on the high e-string. It was pretty high frequency so not everyone could hear it. He gave the guitar a look over, and told me the neck was not as uniformly flat as it should have been, and did some work to make the two edges of the neck to be the same. Not sure what, exactly, and then worked on the setup and intonation. He thought it was due to the maple not being fully cured when it was machined. ( Note: The Tribute series is their lower end model, made in Malaysia, I think. )

After playing it a bit, I'm not entirely sure he did me any favors. The intonation at the 12th fret seemed pretty good, but the guitar was not in tune, when I played open chords. The low E, playing the standard G chord for instance.

I read through the section of Dan Erlewine's book on intonation, and gave it a try. It hasn't worked out very quickly. Most of the issue I am having is that the strings stretch quite easily by finger pressure, so if I am not careful, simply gripping the neck more firmly can change the pitch a lot. Is that a common thing with electric guitar strings ? It has been hanging on the wall for quite a few months, unplayed, as I have been focusing on some accoustic stuff. The other frustrating part is that the setup specs I downloaded from G&L don't really seem to match my guitar. If the bridge is above the body the amount spec'd , the action is too high. It's almost like my neck profile is not the same as the standard G&L guitar. By the way, I have the bridge "blocked" with a piece of oak, so it is no longer a floating bridge and the whammy bar is stored away in the guitar case.

I have half a mind to see if I can send it to G&L for a setup, since we are both in Southern California. I'm not sure they will do that.

redir · #2 10-30-2013, 07:46 AM

You might need to reset the neck angle if you cannot get the bridge to the specified height with good action. That's easy enough to do with a bolt on neck and any repairman should be able to do that.

Intonation, yeah it's a PIA isn't it. Depending on how good your ear is you either don't hear it, don't care, or it drives you insane. Electric guitars are a lot easier to set up since they have individual moveable saddle pieces but it's essentially in theory impossible to get it right for all keys.

If you are used to playing acoustic guitar then you very well may be squeezing the frets a bit too hard and bending the pitch. So you need to get the hang of a lighter technique.

If the intonation is good at the 12th fret then, assuming there is no flaw in the fret spacing, that's about as good as it gets unless you want to get into fine tuning the nut. But even that is only a band aid.

JohnW63 · #3 10-30-2013, 12:54 PM

I was using a Peterson strobe tuner app on my iPod Touch, but I could hear it easily enough. Adjusting the strings is rather easy, but the changes took more turns of the screw than I expected.

On my acoustic guitar, if a use a lot of pressure I can change the pitch a little, but on this electric, it's rather a LOT of pitch change with varying finger pressure. Do electric strings get stretchier when they get old ? I've been playing a 12 string a lot, lately, so maybe my finger pressure has gotten firmer.

As far as the neck goes, I don't think the angle to the body is wrong, which would require a neck shim / reset, but that it sits lower in the body, at least the fret board level to the string height appears that way. Even before I took it to the luthier, and I wanted to fine tune the setup, the numbers just didn't match up. I guess I need to lay a straight edge on it and see where it falls, in relation to the bridge.

Since I don't know what the shop guy did, I am thinking of getting a factory nut and replacing it to get back to square one. Is that a good way to start ?

Ned Milburn · #4 10-30-2013, 01:28 PM

Check that your nut slots are low enough.

If I remember correctly, a few guitars have been built with double truss rods, but except for these, there is not much other than fret work or finger-board planing that can correct a compound-bowed neck.

A 2000$ factory guitar that recently was in my shop had a neck with a knotty area on one edge. This is usually stiffer than straight grained wood, so the neck did not flex as much on this area of the neck. Result - a compound bow (treble/bass).

It would be nice if you could verify what was done to "correct" the neck and post back here.

JohnW63 · #5 10-30-2013, 04:12 PM

I know he had the neck off and was showing me the edges of the fret board, as you sight down the neck to show the curve was not the same from side to side. I assume this would me truss rod changes would not be consistent from side to side. Given he did not charge me a lot, I do not believe he removed frets and reshaped the neck. It may have been filing the frets on one side.

JohnW63 · #6 10-30-2013, 10:07 PM

Just for reference, I took a straight edge on the fretboard and slid it to the bridge. It was consistently below the top surface, where the string bent over, of the saddles. If this was an acoustic guitar, I would say the neck angle was wrong. How is this determined on an electric guitar such as this one ?

Ned Milburn · #7 10-31-2013, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnW63

Just for reference, I took a straight edge on the fretboard and slid it to the bridge. It was consistently below the top surface, where the string bent over, of the saddles. If this was an acoustic guitar, I would say the neck angle was wrong. How is this determined on an electric guitar such as this one ?

This sounds normal.

I and other forum members have written how to check nut slots several times on this forum. Rather than typing it again, I wrote a brief explanation on my website last night. Here is the link:

http://www.handcraftedguitars.ca/201...guitars-setup/

I didn't finish the "Saddle" portion on this page yet. (I had some other work to focus on last night.)

redir · #8 10-31-2013, 07:51 AM

IMO a straight edge along the center of the neck resting on the frets should come to a minimum of right at the saddle height and preferably about 1/32in higher. Electric guitars can be set up differently. I think there is one school of thought that says you get more sustain if your bridge is lower over all.

But again it sounds to me like the only way to get your string height over the body to spec would be to reset the angle.

JohnW63 · #9 10-31-2013, 02:54 PM

Oh dear. Differing ideas on the straight edge test !

I think I'll call a friend who has a USA model G&L and have him check his.

Assuming for the moment that I would be better off with some sort of shim to change the neck angle in the pocket of the body, what material is most often used ? I don't think a playing card, like I saw in one YouTube video would be optimal.

redir · #10 11-01-2013, 08:11 AM

I don't think it matters what wood you use as long as it's wood. Plastic would probably work fine but with wood you can plane the exact angle to a feather tip and keep contact with the neck at all points in the neck pocket. I would hold the shim in place with a dot or two of CA so it doesn't slide around when bolting the neck on.

bnjp · #11 11-01-2013, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redir

I don't think it matters what wood you use as long as it's wood. Plastic would probably work fine but with wood you can plane the exact angle to a feather tip and keep contact with the neck at all points in the neck pocket. I would hold the shim in place with a dot or two of CA so it doesn't slide around when bolting the neck on.

a tapered maple shim is probably the best thing, but if you are not handy like that I sometimes use copper shielding tape. This was done in a hurry to test what a neck angle change would do, so the pieces aren't cut very straight. I would use a bit more care for a permanent shim. I just build it up in layers with the widest piece on the bottom so it builds a little ramp. I would stay away from the "half a business card" or "guitar pick" shims. I got a Japanese Fender in once that has a piece of sandpaper folded up (from the factory) in the neck pocket for a shim. Whatever you use, make it the full width of the pocket.

JohnW63 · #12 11-01-2013, 02:16 PM

I was going to take some measurements and dig up some old geometry formula from Pythagarus and determine how much lift at the neck bolts would equal say... 1/8th of an inch at the saddles but ... I figured one of you repair guys might already have an idea on that.

So, how thick should I go with ?

JohnW63 · #13 11-11-2013, 02:26 AM

I ended up peeling a layer of plywood off of a plank and sanding it down so it was smooth and very thin at one end and less than 1/8" at the other. I traced the neck shape on it and cut it to shape with scissors. It seemed to work. I was able to get the bridge up off the body. It was tightened down ALL the way before. I haven't done a full intonation adjustment, yet, but I think it is closer to correct and the action lower down the neck is lower. The intonation at the 12th fret is within a few cents and the simple chords at the first position sound less out of tune. We'll see how close I can get those, with saddle changes.