A good reason to use Shellac

[Jim.S]

I am a bit over spraying lacquer but have never really considered shellac even though it is a beautiful looking finish because as I live in the tropics the finish suffers badly from sweat, it gets that milky look from to much moisture. Nowadays though there are Shellac hardeners (I have just ordered some for the first time) which stop the milkiness. Here is a video that was posted on the ANZLF quite some time ago and one thing that caught my attention was that if shellac use stops then the trees that host the bug maybe removed, that is if the trees can't produce a income for the people who collect the lac then they may mow them down to farm the areas. Here is the VIDEO if you have a interest in shellac production.

I guess another positive is that the solvent is alcohol and I prefer that to thinners

Jim

[Tavymusic]

I love shellac for it's ease of application, but as you say, it can become scruffy quite quickly.

I've used sandarac as an additive, not sure how much more durable it makes it though.... what's the hardener you're trying?

[WaddyT]

U-Beaut Hard Shellac is a good product, and once cross linked in about 2 weeks after application, is water and alcohol proof. I know one builder that uses it and is very happy with the durability. Better than regular shellac. It does have some bad smelling stuff in the solvent, however. My friend that uses it, sprays his spit coats, and has to ventilate well, or it gives him a severe headache.

[redir]

Oh I didn't know that about U-Beat I thought you just used regular old alcohol with it. Hmmm I was gonna give it a try after the last of my current batch of shellac too.

[wcap]

That's a great video. Thanks so much for posting this. I've long been curious about how shellac is produced.

I'm struck by how labor intensive this process is, and by how little money the people doing this work are probably earning for all this labor.

[Tony Done]

Heh, I lived in Darwin for eight years, currently Toowoomba. Are you a pro luthier/repairer or just a hobbyist?

How do you apply the shellac, and what is the hardener? I'm looking for user-friendly finishes.

[WaddyT]

Originally Posted by redir

Oh I didn't know that about U-Beat I thought you just used regular old alcohol with it. Hmmm I was gonna give it a try after the last of my current batch of shellac too.

I've recently started using it, and you do just use either denatured or grain alcohol with it, just like regular shellac, but what they have used as a solvent, probably meths, smells pretty bad. It doesn't bother me, like it did my friend, but it has a smell.

[Jim.S]

G'day Tony, yep I repair for money (don't make a full living out of it) but am slowing up on repairs now, just begining to sell the hand made guitars. I will FP the shellac. Here is the latest and some background on me Rose Cliche

Redir I think Waddy may mean "hardener" rather than "solvent" you still use alcohol as the solvent with the Ubeaut.

I got mine from the guy who developed it Waddy, rather than Ubeaut (Ubeaut bought the license and formula for the hardened off him) He mainly seems to supply the FP guys for furniture I think. His is still just a little different to the Ubeaut one (a little more "open time" from the use of Butanol, better for spraying). His business name is "Shines".

No worries Wcap, sounds like the more people that use shellac the better those workers lives will be.

It is a modern hardener developed specifically to address the shortcomings of shellac Tavy, Google "Ubeaut hard shellac".

Jim

[Tavymusic]

Originally Posted by Jim.S

I got mine from the guy who developed it Waddy, rather than Ubeaut (Ubeaut bought the license and formula for the hardened off him) He mainly seems to supply the FP guys for furniture I think. His is still just a little different to the Ubeaut one (a little more "open time" from the use of Butanol, better for spraying).

That would explain the smell then - all those 4-carbon molecules smell totally foul - as I remember well from my days working in a lab.

It is a modern hardener developed specifically to address the shortcomings of shellac Tavy, Google "Ubeaut hard shellac".

Thanks, I've heard of UBeaut, but I don't think it's available in UK. I did find Bolger's Melamine Polish though, which is supposed to be a modified shellac (the melamine acts as the shellac cross-linker), anyone ever try this on an instrument?

[redir]

Was Ubeat once called Table Top Shellac or something?

Anyway so it smells bad is it toxic and require ventilation systems? That's one of the reasons I got int FP in the first place.

[Bruce Sexauer]

The best thing about shellac is that when used as an undercoat it greatly increases the bond of Oil Varnish, IF the shellac is de-waxed.

[Tony Done]

Originally Posted by Jim.S

G'day Tony, yep I repair for money (don't make a full living out of it) but am slowing up on repairs now, just begining to sell the hand made guitars. I will FP the shellac. Here is the latest and some background on me Rose Cliche

Redir I think Waddy may mean "hardener" rather than "solvent" you still use alcohol as the solvent with the Ubeaut.

I got mine from the guy who developed it Waddy, rather than Ubeaut (Ubeaut bought the license and formula for the hardened off him) He mainly seems to supply the FP guys for furniture I think. His is still just a little different to the Ubeaut one (a little more "open time" from the use of Butanol, better for spraying). His business name is "Shines".

No worries Wcap, sounds like the more people that use shellac the better those workers lives will be.

It is a modern hardener developed specifically to address the shortcomings of shellac Tavy, Google "Ubeaut hard shellac".

Jim

Thanks for the info.

That's a very interesting bracing pattern, I can't recall seeing anything remotely like it before Do you know how it is going to work out tonally?

You couldn't even find a decent guitar in Darwin when I lived there, never mind a luthier or a repairer.

[Bowie]

Very interesting vid. Left me conflicted in that I want to help support that community by using shellac, but the bug phobiac in me is disgusted knowing it's larva by-product!

[Jim.S]

Originally Posted by redir

Was Ubeat once called Table Top Shellac or something?

Anyway so it smells bad is it toxic and require ventilation systems? That's one of the reasons I got int FP in the first place.

Unsure about the "table top" Redir. Unsure of toxicity but at a guess probably no worse than lacquer solvents so descent cross ventilation is probably a good idea. Will check next time I phone him.

Jim

Edit. Straight shellac I am sure is the less smelly option but it is just not bullet proof enough for the tropics so that's why I am heading down this road now.

[Jim.S]

Originally Posted by Tony Done

Thanks for the info.

That's a very interesting bracing pattern, I can't recall seeing anything remotely like it before Do you know how it is going to work out tonally?

You couldn't even find a decent guitar in Darwin when I lived there, never mind a luthier or a repairer.

The bracing was developed by Trevor Gore Tony, He is the co-author of "Contemporary Acoustic Guitar Design and Build". Tonally it works out real good especially when coupled with a live back, a very clever bracing system really.

Jim