Am I the only one that thinks the klos (and other) carbon guitars are gimmicky?

[acousticchiq]

I played a klos the other day and it did sound pretty nice. It was $2000 guitar.

I truly question the selling point of the guitars though.

The main selling point is that they are not affected by temperature changes and environment.

I personally, actually do live in a van from time to time and my $60 (bought used) Yamaha guitar pretty much just lives in there. It's in freezing temperatures right now and in summer temperatures it lives there too.

Nothing has ever gone wrong with it. Granted it's not all solid wood construction and hide glue but I'm completely 100% confident that temperature or environmental factors would do nothing to it.

If anything we're to happen to the guitar. It would be physical damage, like something physically crushing the guitar. But if that were to happen, I would just go on Craigslist and spend another 60 bucks. There wouldn't be a situation in my lifetime where the guitar would get crushed so many times that the replacement cost would equal the price of a klos, at thousands.

It seems like these carbon fiber guitars are marketed to people who dont play guitar at a high level. I've had proficient artist friends buy them and they all told me that the guitar sounded terrible and it was super heavy compared to a comparable wood guitar

[jaymarsch]

I have played some wonderful sounding carbon fiber guitars. If I lived in a tropical environment or very arid environment, it might be worth owning one.
I found that over time, the tone gave me ear fatigue. I didn’t hear the nuances that I hear over time with wood guitars.
I don’t think that they are gimmicky. They serve a real purpose and many touring musicians use them. My favorite that I had a chance to play on a number of occasions was Al Petteway’s signature Rainsong OM.
Just another legitimate choice for guitar players.
Best,
Jayne

[Acousticado]

OP, your perspective suggests that your exposure to and experience with composite guitars is very limited. They are neither gimmicky or inferior. The major brands are as sophisticated and high quality as quality wood guitars...just different. Beyond the enhanced environmental tolerance, there are numerous other reasons why they have a definite place in the world of guitars...acoustic and electric. As a suggestion, you may want to spend some time in the AGF Carbon Fiber subforum to learn more about them in general and the various brands.

[jricc]

I know of a couple of pros, namely David Wilcox and Al Petteway RIP, who play/played Rainsong acoustics.

I personally love my Rainsong, and as someone who gigs outdoors all summer, I know I can depend on it being stable, staying in tune and sounding good.

Maybe it's not for everyone, but as Jayne said, it's another legitimate choice for guitarists.

[Bowie]

When people bring up the cost of things and then make a passive aggressive insult about them not being skilled players, it's pretty telling.
I have no interest in carbon fiber guitars but I'm not going to bash them or people who buy them.

[fpuhan]

Yes. And no. I bought my KLŌS travel guitar when the company was still in the crowd-funding startup stage. I love it! It has gone with me across the country, aboard ship, and in hotel rooms at home and abroad. So, a couple of notes from my point of view:

• My purpose was to get an "indestructible" guitar. One that I could use to practice while traveling.
• The removable neck and easy storage made it possible to pack in my luggage, and check the bag without having to worry about baggage handlers.
• I like small, short-scale guitars. The size of the KLŌS did not -- and still does not -- bother me.
• However, it does not and will never sound like a full-size, full-bodied guitar. Of course, that's great for hotel rooms, ship cabins, and places where a louder guitar might offend others.
• Finally, the price of the same guitar today is off-putting for me. If I were looking for all of the above, the nearly $1k price would give me second thoughts. If I hadn't already had my experience, I would probably pass on it today.

[acousticchiq]

Originally Posted by Bowie

When people bring up the cost of things and then make a passive aggressive insult about them not being skilled players, it's pretty telling.
I have no interest in carbon fiber guitars but I'm not going to bash them or people who buy them.

I'm not bashing anyone who buys them.

I just don't understand where all these people are getting the idea that a regular guitar touches air that's not 70 degrees and implodes.

In another post on this forum, on the front page, someone posted a photo and said this: "This was earlier tonight in 30 degree temps, handled it easy. Stayed in tune, no shrinking wood , sharp frets etc"

As if a wood guitar can't also do literally the exact same thing.

What the hell, I also played a festival this past weekend in the desert, in Arizona, it was 26 degrees, and it also "handled it easy", it stayed in tune, no shrinking wood, no sharp frets. It was a Gibson l-00

Theres something not right here... There's literally a disconnect from reality that's happening.

I get it if carbon fiber is your thing. And that's cool. But what's up with all the misinformation. And people using said misinformation to brag about something that's just not real.

I get the less fragile part. It probably is more durable in regards to not getting crushed like wood would. But people don't ever talk about that.

[Bowie]

Originally Posted by acousticchiq

I'm not bashing anyone who buys them.

I just don't understand where all these people are getting the idea that a regular guitar touches air that's not 70 degrees and implodes.

In another post on this forum, on the front page, someone posted a photo and said this: "This was earlier tonight in 30 degree temps, handled it easy. Stayed in tune, no shrinking wood , sharp frets etc"

As if a wood guitar can't also do literally the exact same thing.

What the hell, I also played a festival this past weekend in the desert, in Arizona, it was 26 degrees, and it also "handled it easy", it stayed in tune, no shrinking wood, no sharp frets. It was a Gibson l-00

Theres something not right here... There's literally a disconnect from reality that's happening.

I get it if carbon fiber is your thing. And that's cool. But what's up with all the misinformation. And people using said misinformation to brag about something that's just not real.

I get the less fragile part. It probably is more durable in regards to not getting crushed like wood would. But people don't ever talk about that.

Oh, really? "... these carbon fiber guitars are marketed to people who dont play guitar at a high level."
Resentment toward people who buy expensive items is common, but it's not cool. Again, I wouldn't buy one but people can at least not insult those who do.

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by acousticchiq

...It seems like these carbon fiber guitars are marketed to people who don't play guitar at a high level. I've had proficient artist friends buy them and they all told me that the guitar sounded terrible and it was super heavy compared to a comparable wood guitar...

I've owned a matched pair of Rainsong 6- and 12-string jumbos (JM1000/JM3000) for the last 20 years...

I A/B'd my first one at MandoBros against other 17-inchers, manufacturer and boutique, at just about every price point under $10K (in circa-2K dollars)...

As an eclectic player it was the sensitivity, immediate response, projection, broad "sweet spot," and clarity for any style that first attracted me - durability under extreme conditions was a serendipitous bonus...

They're also among the lightest acoustics I've ever owned over the last 60+ years, and by far the lightest jumbos...

I started stringing them with Martin Monels shortly after they came on the market (FYI a tonal secret that has since been discovered by a number of fellow AGF'ers here on the Carbon Fiber subforum) which reins in the edginess of PB strings without sacrificing the characteristic CF response, clarity, or volume - I like to think of it as the sound Bob T. hears in his head but can't quite achieve with traditional wooden construction...

Does it sound exactly like a wooden guitar: no, but by the same token a Goodall Jumbo doesn't sound like a Gibson J-200 which doesn't sound like a Guild F-50R which doesn't sound like a Martin Grand J which doesn't sound like a Lowden O-32 which doesn't etc. - I think you get the idea...

If these people are truly "artists" and that proficient, it begs the question as to why they bought them in the first place if they sounded so terrible...

If it were me, I'd be looking for some new friends...

[Captain Jim]

People who have never owned (or even played) a nice carbon fiber guitar frequently get things about carbon fiber wrong. First of all, that whole "indestructible" thing... carbon fiber is tougher than wood, but it can certain suffer damage if badly handled. CF is definitely tougher than wood when it comes to big changes in humidity or temperature. Wood swells and contracts, carbon fiber doesn't. That doesn't mean you should intentionally subject your nice CF guitar to extremes.

Just like differences in wood guitars, there are different ways to produce carbon fiber guitars: hand lay-up with sheets of carbon fiber, impregnated with epoxy vs spraying with a "chopper guy"... these different manners of construction will affect the weight of a CF guitar, as well.

As far as tone: that is a subjective thing. I've been playing guitar for 59 years now, and I've heard sweet and dead sounding wood guitars. I don't understand the often asked question: "Which carbon fiber guitar sounds most like wood?" Got a specific wood tone in mind? Taylor or Martin? Gibson? Guild? They all sound different, as well as within the different models of each maker. Same with carbon fiber.

I have both carbon fiber and wood guitars and appreciate the sound/tone of each. If push came to shove, I'd give up the wood guitars before the lovely sound of the Emeralds I have. Another big advantage of carbon fiber is the ergonomics the designer can build into the guitar to make it more comfortable to hold and play... that is a big deal to me, and the reason I pick up my Emerald carbon fiber guitars 95% of the time.

Years ago (many), I didn't know anything about caring for a nice acoustic guitar. We moved from the midwest to a dryer climate and within 6 months of that move, the Gibson acoustic I had developed a crack in the top. I took it to a well-respected guitar shop and they told me they see this a lot and they do a lot of repairs on this type of damage... then schooled me in how to humidify a guitar in a dry climate. My carbon fiber guitars have no issue with this.

Just like there are respected names in wood guitar making, there are the same in carbon fiber guitars. The three CF makers I appreciate the most are Emerald (made in Ireland), McPherson (made in the USA, and they also make very nice wood guitars), and RainSong (who recently closed their doors). I've seen/played guitars made by Journey, Enya, and Klos... to my ears and eyes, these are the next tier down (no disrespect meant to owners of these brands) and don't have the same fit/finish/sound. It doesn't mean they are "bad" guitars, just not as nice... and the price reflects it.

If the talent for playing were the sole criteria for owning a nice guitar (wood or CF), there would be far fewer nice guitars being made. In my younger years, I made my living and provided for our young family with a guitar. I was in my 50s before I bought my first really nice acoustic guitar. I can afford what I want, and carbon fiber makes up the majority of what I have for acoustics. I approach this from experience, not "I know a guy who..." I have no disrespect for any player of any guitar - play what you like. There are some effects being added to acoustic guitars that some consider "gimmicky" ... I feel it is a matter of being able to buy what you like. Carbon fiber isn't a gimmick - it is simply another material that builders can use; a material that works for my use. I bought my first one when we were traveling by boat and RV and discovered I really like the tone. Better than the wood guitar that I considered my "travel guitar" at the time.

Options.

[jricc]

Originally Posted by acousticchiq

In another post on this forum, on the front page, someone posted a photo and said this: "This was earlier tonight in 30 degree temps, handled it easy. Stayed in tune, no shrinking wood , sharp frets etc"

As if a wood guitar can't also do literally the exact same thing.

What the hell, I also played a festival this past weekend in the desert, in Arizona, it was 26 degrees, and it also "handled it easy", it stayed in tune, no shrinking wood, no sharp frets. It was a Gibson l-00

Theres something not right here... There's literally a disconnect from reality that's happening.

I get it if carbon fiber is your thing. And that's cool. But what's up with all the misinformation. And people using said misinformation to brag about something that's just not real.

I get the less fragile part. It probably is more durable in regards to not getting crushed like wood would. But people don't ever talk about that.

Well the post you are talking about was mine, and I wasn't trying to imply wood guitars couldn't "handle" those conditions, just that my Rainsong was perfect for those conditions.

I gig a lot outdoors in the summer. One summer I did have a Taylor that became unplayable because of the humidity, heat and sweat. It required fretwork and a reset (which wasn't that big a deal because of the bolt on neck). After I had the work done, I sold it and bought the Rainsong, and no longer have any issues.

I own 2 wood guitars and love them. I also wasn't trying to say CF guitars are better than wood guitars , just that they are great for extreme conditions, actually IMO, great for any conditions. Cheers!

[KevinH]

Originally Posted by acousticchiq

...What the hell, I also played a festival this past weekend in the desert, in Arizona, it was 26 degrees, and it also "handled it easy", it stayed in tune, no shrinking wood, no sharp frets. It was a Gibson l-00

Theres something not right here... There's literally a disconnect from reality that's happening.
...

My main reason for buying my Emerald was that I wanted something that sounded different from my other guitars. It's very good at that. As a bonus I don't have to worry about fret sprout or buzzing when the humidity gets low.

I also bought a Journey CF travel guitar because there are many times I take a guitar on a road trip to hot places and I leave the guitar in the car. It's not the cold temps that are the issue. The main problem is overheating, which softens the glue on a wood guitar.

So, no, I don't think they are gimmicky at all.

[RP]

Originally Posted by acousticchiq

It seems like these carbon fiber guitars are marketed to people who dont play guitar at a high level. I've had proficient artist friends buy them and they all told me that the guitar sounded terrible and it was super heavy compared to a comparable wood guitar

Originally Posted by acousticchiq

I'm not bashing anyone who buys them.

It sure sounds like you are...

[acousticchiq]

Originally Posted by RP

It sure sounds like you are...

First sentence I wrote was that I thought the guitar I played sounded pretty good. It was a klos and I expected it to sound like plastic but I truly thought it sounded pretty good.

[DDW]

Originally Posted by acousticchiq

I personally, actually do live in a van from time to time and my $60 (bought used) Yamaha guitar pretty much just lives in there. It's in freezing temperatures right now and in summer temperatures it lives there too.

......

It seems like these carbon fiber guitars are marketed to people who dont play guitar at a high level. I've had proficient artist friends buy them and they all told me that the guitar sounded terrible and it was super heavy compared to a comparable wood guitar

You are right about one thing: they do not market them to people who are happy with a $60 Yamaha they picked up on Craigslist. Nor do many other luthiers.

Your proficient artist friends are allowed an opinion on the sound that they like. They are not allowed an opinion on the sound that I like. All carbon guitars are not heavier than a comparable wood one, in fact they tend the opposite. Of course just as you can spend a wide range on a wood guitar, you can do so on a carbon one.