Lets Talk Buss Send Levels

[AcousticDreams]

For Reverb

1. Should send levels always be set at 0.0?
Or are there reasons why you would want to adjust more or less?

2. Lets say you want to use the same reverb & setting for three different instruments. To give you the feeling that they all reside int he same room.
In this example I am using PRO R and Long Plate. All bussed to Aux 1.

However, I still want different amounts of the Long Plate adjusted to each one. I can do this be adjusting the amounts of send for each instrument can't I?
Piano 0.0, Flute-6.3 & Cello -4.6

Is this a rule breaker? Any reason not to do this? Or is it commonly done?

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by AcousticDreams

For Reverb

1. Should send levels always be set at 0.0?
Or are there reasons why you would want to adjust more or less?

2. Lets say you want to use the same reverb & setting for three different instruments. To give you the feeling that they all reside int he same room.
In this example I am using PRO R and Long Plate. All bussed to Aux 1.

However, I still want different amounts of the Long Plate adjusted to each one. I can do this be adjusting the amounts of send for each instrument can't I?
Piano 0.0, Flute-6.3 & Cello -4.6

Is this a rule breaker? Any reason not to do this? Or is it commonly done?

Rule breaker? No--- Yes commonly done ---So correct, for multiple instruments to the same Effect you adjust the individual send level for the amount of Verb effect you want for that specific instrument. And set the Aux 1 level to 0.0 or "Unity Gain" as it is often referred to..

[j3ffr0]

so commonly done that it's pretty much the standard as far as I know.

[b1j]

If you send the main instrument, or main vocal, with a lower gain, the other parts will have more reverb in the same “room,” and the main will stand more forward in the mix, which might be exactly what you want.

[Bob Womack]

Not a rule breaker. I will quite often put the background vocals deeper in the reverb than the lead vocals. In fact, I sometimes put the BGVs in a different reverb so that the "room" changes when you get to a harmonized part but the lead voice is in a shallower, drier place. You really have to use your ears.

Creative use of reverb sends is part of the whole creative mix process. Just don't let is stick out... unless you want to!

Bob

[AcousticDreams]

Originally Posted by b1j

If you send the main instrument, or main vocal, with a lower gain, the other parts will have more reverb in the same “room,” and the main will stand more forward in the mix, which might be exactly what you want.

Originally Posted by Bob Womack

I will quite often put the background vocals deeper in the reverb than the lead vocals. In fact, I sometimes put the BGVs in a different reverb so that the "room" changes when you get to a harmonized part but the lead voice is in a shallower, drier place. You really have to use your ears.

Creative use of reverb sends is part of the whole creative mix process. Just don't let is stick out... unless you want to!

Bob

I had never thought of it in that way before! Learning something related to my question, that I was not expecting. It makes good sense. Cool!

I have always looked at reverb as a Mood Setter. Deep verb for flute or cinematic style Piano. Even for voice, I have loved deep reverb as it accentuates deep emotional singing.

My brother & our friend use to play flute in a multi foor stair & hall way, at the College right down the street from us. They would play into the wee hours of the night when nobody was around. Echo city, as they too loved the elongated notes bouncing off walls. I think you use to do that too Bob with your guitar at your college?

I have always been pretty heavy handed when it comes to reverb. Hmmm? This may be one of the reasons why I love Pro R. As it is so very transparent that I can crank up the reverb with giant plates and the fundamentals still come through.

With this new piece of information I will have to use it to make certain instruments or voices stand out at different times.

I watched a video yesterday where they finally clarified why you have three names for a signal that winds up in the same place(Send/Buss/Aux). You see, for an old dog like me...that did not make sense. The Video explained that Send is the word for the actual pathway. They explained it using water as the signal, A Pipe to deliver the signal, and the Aux Channel as to where it winds up. So now it all makes sense. While they did not say...I guess Buss then would mean the the method of getting it to the send.

It's not like I did not know what it was doing, I understood the pathway. However I sometimes get hung up on terminology...not understanding why they illustrate things in the way they do. Thinking that there is some extra hidden reason for the Three names. Now I get it. It is simply. So simple, yet, I was blocked from interpreting their reasons why. But Pipe/send...makes some sense.

[Bob Womack]

Originally Posted by AcousticDreams

My brother & our friend use to play flute in a multi foor stair & hall way, at the College right down the street from us. They would play into the wee hours of the night when nobody was around. Echo city, as they too loved the elongated notes bouncing off walls. I think you use to do that too Bob with your guitar at your college?

Yup, mostly with my acoustic but my yearbook photo was taken with my Les Paul. It was the only time I wore that buckle with the guitar:

I watched a video yesterday where they finally clarified why you have three names for a signal that winds up in the same place(Send/Buss/Aux). You see, for an old dog like me...that did not make sense. The Video explained that Send is the word for the actual pathway. They explained it using water as the signal, A Pipe to deliver the signal, and the Aux Channel as to where it winds up. So now it all makes sense. While they did not say...I guess Buss then would mean the the method of getting it to the send.

It's not like I did not know what it was doing, I understood the pathway. However I sometimes get hung up on terminology...not understanding why they illustrate things in the way they do. Thinking that there is some extra hidden reason for the Three names. Now I get it. It is simply. So simple, yet, I was blocked from interpreting their reasons why. But Pipe/send...makes some sense.

In analog electrical architecture, a "bus" is a physical bar that carries energy. In power substations it is a solid metal bar. In consoles it can be a bar that runs the length of the console that channels connect to. To distinguish power distribution from signal distribution, a power bus is called a "rail" and a signal bus is called a "bus." In a serious console you join a signal bus via a summing amplifier which sums signals from multiple channels together while electrically isolating them so that a short on one channel doesn't kill them all.

Now, to Groups, Sends, Monitor or Cue buses, and Aux buses. At their core, they are basically all the same -summing buses- but can be provided unique features based upon the intent and the manufacturer.

On a music console, Groups are typically designed to feed tape machine channels. In a DAW, the "tape machine" is fused with the console so the connection is automatic. These typically have a master level control after the summing stage.|

Sends are buses designed to feed FX channels. They may be stereo or mono and often have pre/post fader select switches to take the feed either from before or after the fader and EQ in the individual channel. If stereo, they might also have a balance control.

Monitor or Cue buses are designed to feed headphone channels. They may be stereo or mono and may have a pre/post switch. In a mono channel that feeds a stereo headphone mix, they may offer a pan control to create a mix that makes it easy for the musicians to hear themselves.

Aux buses are auxiliary buses designed for multiple uses. They may have various features to allow them to easily serve as Sends, Groups, or Monitor channels. It all depends on the manufacturer.

So the differences between Groups, Sends, Monitor buses, and Aux buses come down to intent.

Bob

[sdelsolray]

I used to set the level of the send to the AUX track at unity (i.e., 0 dB). For several years I have been setting it to -6.0 dB. A couple of studio cats I know said that a safer send level particularly if the recorded track is hot. It really doesn't matter much for what I do because the peaks of any recorded track I make usually gets to about -12 dB.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by AcousticDreams

I watched a video yesterday where they finally clarified why you have three names for a signal that winds up in the same place(Send/Buss/Aux). You see, for an old dog like me...that did not make sense. The Video explained that Send is the word for the actual pathway. They explained it using water as the signal, A Pipe to deliver the signal, and the Aux Channel as to where it winds up. So now it all makes sense. While they did not say...I guess Buss then would mean the the method of getting it to the send.

To add to that think of the the Buss just like a school Bus it picks up the kids =(signals) at different locations = (different audio tracks) and takes them and drops them all off at the school = (the Aux track)

Interestingly I did a similar water analogy video. Now I also equate the send to a valve in a water pipe because it is not only the pipe (or path in digital audio) but it also has a control for the amount of water (signal) going trough the pipe

[DupleMeter]

Originally Posted by AcousticDreams

For Reverb

1. Should send levels always be set at 0.0?
Or are there reasons why you would want to adjust more or less?

You want to hit the reverb like any other channel, so you adjust the send to get enough signal into it, but not overload it. I have my sends default to -9 when they come up & adjust from there.

Originally Posted by AcousticDreams

2. Lets say you want to use the same reverb & setting for three different instruments. To give you the feeling that they all reside int he same room.
In this example I am using PRO R and Long Plate. All bussed to Aux 1.

However, I still want different amounts of the Long Plate adjusted to each one. I can do this be adjusting the amounts of send for each instrument can't I?
Piano 0.0, Flute-6.3 & Cello -4.6

That's how to do it. You're on the right track.

I will add that having multiple reverbs can be beneficial (at least 1 long & 1 short). Because they help move instruments back more or less in the mix & can really give a sense of depth.

My default setup starts with the following:

Cinematic Rooms Pro - set to splashy studio (small verb for glue)
Seventh Heaven Pro - Stone Chamber (longer reverb)
Seventh Heaven Pro - Plate (I don't remember which, mostly for lead vocals)
Tai Chi - custom setting (mostly fro snare, but I do sometimes add guitar or toms to this)
McDSP EC300 (Delay) - mosyly for lead vocals.

I don't always use them all, but I know I like these starting points & adjust from there.

[Gordon Currie]

Originally Posted by AcousticDreams

For Reverb

1. Should send levels always be set at 0.0?
Or are there reasons why you would want to adjust more or less?

I never set an effects bus send to 0. Always (as DupleMeter mentioned) to a default (mine is -12).

I also have the reverb at 100% wet and return only a small amount back to the Main/Master.

The reason for this is that when mixing multitracked recordings, every additional bus adds some gain. It is too easy to get a mix without effects, then add effects and hear your mix unbalance right before your ears.

There is always some rebalancing when adding in effects, but I don't like to go back to square one.