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  #1  
Old 09-02-2021, 03:48 AM
Mrsecco Mrsecco is offline
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Default exercise for the missing string?

I was trying to search the internet for those suffering from this problem but I never find anything about it
I never find information
I'll show you two photos (which are just simple scenarios that can happen while I'm playing) limitedly represent what I mean.
it is a problem that can happen even just playing, BUT MAINLY ONLY IN FINGERSTYLE

In the first photo: https://gyazo.com/0026d0d21dcd8d9b159afb098afe2a8a
I show that it can happen that with all my fingers I do not get a good grip on the string that I have to press.
As if I were slipping, or trying to reach it, I don't know why the finger ends up under the rope.
In this case I had to play string A
But my finger even if I try to reach it automatically ended up under the rope and I don't know why. (attention: it can happen if I play fast BUT SOMETIMES even slowly so the problem is there)


In the second photo: https://gyazo.com/d6fb0785ea785aa56f9ce928510734ba

Instead I show how the finger takes the string but (often ONLY WITH THE E STRING) somehow slips making me take the string not really '' well '' with a slightly lower part of the finger where it is usual to press a string. (I don't know if I made you understand well)

MY SOLUTIONS THAT I DON'T KNOW IF THEY CAN HELP ME:
Since I am self-taught and I learned the guitar by myself, I never did any technical exercises. Never in my life and this thing gave me the motivation to FINALLY start DOING IT.
I have been playing with the metronome for 4 days doing EXERCISES.
These (easy) exercises, however, I DON'T KNOW IF THEY ARE RIGHT TO ME and if they can help me, please take a look.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2dH0B5Vwj4&t=183s

exercises I'm talking about you can see them at minute 2:58
I'm playing with the metronome (and I never did)
I like it but I don't know if it can give me the results I'm looking for. Does this exercise seem useful to you? do you have others?

I have been playing the guitar for almost 4 years and I can also do some fingerstyle pieces by tommy emmanuel but I realize I make mistakes and I don't like it. I WANT TO LEARN, thanks if someone will answer and give me advice too.
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  #2  
Old 09-02-2021, 07:59 AM
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rick-slo rick-slo is offline
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Get your thumb behind the neck rather than wrapped around it. Your fretting fingers need to contact the strings more perpendicular to the fretboard.
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  #3  
Old 09-02-2021, 08:14 AM
Mrsecco Mrsecco is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rick-slo View Post
Get your thumb behind the neck rather than wrapped around it. Your fretting fingers need to contact the strings more perpendicular to the fretboard.
oh sure for the exercises (I don't know if you've seen) can you tell me if they can help me in this?
Anyway, I use my thumb every now and then in some fingerstlyle song, as does tommy emmanuel, am I wrong?
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Old 09-02-2021, 08:14 AM
Howard Emerson Howard Emerson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrsecco View Post
I was trying to search the internet for those suffering from this problem but I never find anything about it
I never find information
I'll show you two photos (which are just simple scenarios that can happen while I'm playing) limitedly represent what I mean.
it is a problem that can happen even just playing, BUT MAINLY ONLY IN FINGERSTYLE

In the first photo: https://gyazo.com/0026d0d21dcd8d9b159afb098afe2a8a
I show that it can happen that with all my fingers I do not get a good grip on the string that I have to press.
As if I were slipping, or trying to reach it, I don't know why the finger ends up under the rope.
In this case I had to play string A
But my finger even if I try to reach it automatically ended up under the rope and I don't know why. (attention: it can happen if I play fast BUT SOMETIMES even slowly so the problem is there)


In the second photo: https://gyazo.com/d6fb0785ea785aa56f9ce928510734ba

Instead I show how the finger takes the string but (often ONLY WITH THE E STRING) somehow slips making me take the string not really '' well '' with a slightly lower part of the finger where it is usual to press a string. (I don't know if I made you understand well)

MY SOLUTIONS THAT I DON'T KNOW IF THEY CAN HELP ME:
Since I am self-taught and I learned the guitar by myself, I never did any technical exercises. Never in my life and this thing gave me the motivation to FINALLY start DOING IT.
I have been playing with the metronome for 4 days doing EXERCISES.
These (easy) exercises, however, I DON'T KNOW IF THEY ARE RIGHT TO ME and if they can help me, please take a look.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2dH0B5Vwj4&t=183s

exercises I'm talking about you can see them at minute 2:58
I'm playing with the metronome (and I never did)
I like it but I don't know if it can give me the results I'm looking for. Does this exercise seem useful to you? do you have others?

I have been playing the guitar for almost 4 years and I can also do some fingerstyle pieces by tommy emmanuel but I realize I make mistakes and I don't like it. I WANT TO LEARN, thanks if someone will answer and give me advice too.
Rick's advice is a must-do, but you also need to cut your fingernails as well.

The more vertically you approach the strings, a longer nail will touch the fingerboard first, and 'shovel' under the string, and force your fingertip to be angled.

It may also be a matter of the shape/size of the neck itself. It may not be big enough, wide enough, or small enough or narrow enough.

Whether or not any particular exercise will help you is beyond everybodys ability to guess, frankly. If we had a clue as to whether or not it would help you, we'd be playing winning lotto numbers instead.

Just. Do. It.

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  #5  
Old 09-02-2021, 08:39 AM
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Couple of pictures I took of how I usually position my hand. If your hand is large enough you can wrap the thumb around but just on occasion for some fingerings. Also as Howard pointed out, cut your nails very short (the tip of my fretting hand nails are well short of the fingertips).

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  #6  
Old 09-02-2021, 10:56 AM
AndreF AndreF is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrsecco View Post
....I have been playing the guitar for almost 4 years and I can also do some fingerstyle pieces by tommy emmanuel but I realize I make mistakes and I don't like it.....
Based on the photos you provided, it's easy to see why. You really need to go back to the fundamentals of hand, thumb and finger placement on the neck.
I agree with Howard and Rick's comments.

I had a look at the instruction video you posted. That's actually a good place to start, because the fellow is doing exactly what Rick and Howard were alluding to:
- Thumb on back
- Trimly nailed fingers in proper alignment.
- Fingers fretting close to the fret.
- Fingers in control of each movement.
- No unruly finger placements.
- Slow practice.

If you practiced just that it would be a huge improvement from the disorderly finger look that your photos showed.

But, do you have the patience to do this? Because that's what it will take, lots of it, to get your hand back into the proper playing positions.
And if you practice tunes, select very easy ones that will make it easier to ingrain this new muscle memory.
Too bad you can't have a teacher.
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  #7  
Old 09-02-2021, 02:03 PM
Mrsecco Mrsecco is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rick-slo View Post
Couple of pictures I took of how I usually position my hand. If your hand is large enough you can wrap the thumb around but just on occasion for some fingerings. Also as Howard pointed out, cut your nails very short (the tip of my fretting hand nails are well short of the fingertips).

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreF View Post
Based on the photos you provided, it's easy to see why. You really need to go back to the fundamentals of hand, thumb and finger placement on the neck.
I agree with Howard and Rick's comments.

I had a look at the instruction video you posted. That's actually a good place to start, because the fellow is doing exactly what Rick and Howard were alluding to:
- Thumb on back
- Trimly nailed fingers in proper alignment.
- Fingers fretting close to the fret.
- Fingers in control of each movement.
- No unruly finger placements.
- Slow practice.

If you practiced just that it would be a huge improvement from the disorderly finger look that your photos showed.

But, do you have the patience to do this? Because that's what it will take, lots of it, to get your hand back into the proper playing positions.
And if you practice tunes, select very easy ones that will make it easier to ingrain this new muscle memory.
Too bad you can't have a teacher.


Thank you very much, I will continue to practice with this exercise and the similar ones I will find.
But I want to clarify that when I play I hardly ever put my thumb like that ahaha
I use the thumb in some fingerstyle song and I had put it on top for use in the next chord.
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  #8  
Old 09-09-2021, 05:50 PM
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I'm not going to argue that the method of fretting a chord shown is the prescribed method. But why then do we see so many really good guitar players not fretting like that?
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Old 10-11-2021, 08:05 AM
erhino41 erhino41 is offline
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My first thought was the finger nails a well. Subconsciously you know the fingernails need clearance. If you reduce the need to worry about the nails, you should be able to use more parts of the finger tip.

The thumb position should be dynamic. For some techniques the thumb tip should anchor on the back of the neck. For others a wrap around may be called for, especially if your using that thumb to fret the e string. You need to experiment to figure out where your thumb needs to be, a each players hands are different.
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Old 10-12-2021, 03:23 AM
JonPR JonPR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rllink View Post
I'm not going to argue that the method of fretting a chord shown is the prescribed method. But why then do we see so many really good guitar players not fretting like that?
If you mean putting their thumb over the top, there would be many reasons for that:

1. They can get away with it, because their hands are flexible enough (and fingers well enough placed) to get whatever they're playing to work. I.e., they can relax a little from classical "correctness". Steel string necks are narrower than classical, and thumb over doesn't cause as many problems. But when playing complex lines or chords - needing bigger stretches - you'll probably find these players lowering their thumb to the back of the neck

2. They need the thumb to actually mute or fret the 6th string. This is not required in classical guitar. Generally you are not strumming classical guitar, so strings not required don't need muting because you won't be hitting them by accident. (E.g. as you might when strumming a C or D chord.) When do you strum a chord in classical guitar, you either play all the strings, or are able to mute those not required with a spare finger.

3. They are using the thumb as a pivot to help bend a string or add transverse vibrato. Again those things are not required in classical guitar.
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Old 10-12-2021, 03:48 AM
JonPR JonPR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrsecco View Post
oh sure for the exercises (I don't know if you've seen) can you tell me if they can help me in this?
The exercise in the video yu linked to is useful for getting the pinky to work correctly, and to develop general stretch and flexibility in all fingers. You don;'t have to start at 5th fret, you can start higher if the stretching is easier, and then work your way down. Eventually you should be able to do that exercises on frets 1-2-3-4.

For placing your hand, take note of where his thumb is: roughly opposite middle finger on back of the neck, supporting all the fingers equally. Also check the angle of his fingers - parallel with the frets (on average).

It may help to raise the neck of the guitar. Before starting, pick any fret around the middle of the neck (say between 5 and 10) and place your index flat across the fretboard, between two frets (parallel with the frets), thumb on the back. Your index should now be pointing directly at your eye. If not, change the guitar position and neck angle until it is!

Also make sure the guitar is held firmly in position on your leg (either leg, doesn't matter) against your body by your right arm. The left hand does not support the neck - nor should you need the left hand to steady the neck to stop it moving. The left hand's job is merely to fret the strings, pinching between thumb and fingertips. You should make the guitar as immobile as you can with your right arm, leg(s) and body - maybe even with a strap (some like a strap even when seated). The whole idea with the classical left leg position is that it fixes the guitar securely so it moves as little possible with any left hand action. With the informal right leg position, you often need other strategies to stop the neck waving about.

Next, when placing the four fingers on one string for that exercise, start with the 4th finger. Get the 4th finger comfortable first. It's the weakest finger, so needs your support! Then reach the index back 3 frets below, and arrange the other fingers in between. The thumb should be roughly in the middle of all 4 fingers, but behind the middle finger is ideal. Again the thumb should be pointing upwards, as in the video: straight, not bent, and not angled along the neck in any way. There should be at least an inch of air between the bottom edge of the neck and your palm.

As the others have said, you should cut your nails so the last finger joint can stand at right angles on the string - the fingertip central on the string and not touching strings either side. (You can't always have every fingertip perpendicular to the string of course - hands are not built like that! - but take an average.)
As a tip for nail length: if you can feel the wood of the fretboard with your nail, your nail is too long.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrsecco View Post
Anyway, I use my thumb every now and then in some fingerstlyle song, as does tommy emmanuel, am I wrong?
No. Sometimes you need your thumb on the back, for any of the reasons in my previous post.
But generally if you're having problems with fingering any chord, riff, melody, pattern, whatever - and the thumb is not actually required on the 6th string (for muting or fretting) - get the thumb on the back (and the guitar position correct) and it should be easier. Thumb on the back allows your fingers maximum reach and freedom of movement,
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