The Martin Tone

[TDavis]

Nothing really sounds like a Martin...except a Martin.

[Silly Moustache]

Originally Posted by Troubador

I've wondered what Martin does to get that unique tone that only their guitars have. I loved that tone the first time I ever heard it. I didn't think I could afford a Martin, so I searched for that tone in other, less expensive guitars. I was not able to play anything in person, so I looked at numerous Youtube videos. I bought a solid-wood Norman, and a solid-wood Washburn that I thought was very close to the Martin tone. But when I got these guitars and played them in person, they didn't sound close to a Martin. I then bought a Sigma SDR-28, and it did have the Martin tone -- not as good as the D-28, but still recognizable as made by Martin. The Sigma was not an all solid-wood guitar, but to me it sounded better than the Norman and the Washburn. I ended up giving the latter two to my best friends, and I just sold the Sigma.

About a month ago, I sold a used car I didn't need and bought a Martin HD-28 with the money. I'm very happy. I wish the nut width was 1 3/4 instead of 1 11/16, but I'm hoping I can adjust. This is my dream guitar. It has that unique wonderful tone that I've only heard on a Martin. I just wonder how they do it. The closest I've come to hearing that tone in another guitar is the Gibson J-60.

Martin had been redesigning the guitar for around a hundred years (1833-1929/34) and had worked to make all sizes equally balanced across the strings on all models.

In 1929, they took the 000 and reduced the size and stuck on the nearest they could get to a tenor banjo neck. They called it an "OM" (orchestra model) the first Martin guitar designed primarily as a rhythm guitar to compete with Gibson, Epiphone archtops etc.
(They also tried to make archtops from '31 to '42, but they did not have carved backs and were not as projecting as the others).

In 1931 they produced the first12 fret dreads, (IMHO the best dreadnought design) which was also evenly balanced across the strings.

In 1933, they discontinued the auditorium sized OM, and a year later did the same hing to the Dreadnought, also, initially called "OM"

None met the needs of dance band players but they foud another market in the folk/country market.
With the 14v fret dreadnought they discarded the idea of even balance and went with bass heavy.

Bass biased - that it the Martin sound.
See this video from Chris Martin himself, and pay particular attention to his comments from 8:40 (ish) to 9:30.



https://youtu.be/uLHNapBLSVw

[J Patrick]

…it’s easy to point to the Martin Dreadnought and say that’s the Martin tone….but in fact their guitar designs are quite diverse and have been for a very long time….the various designs have different tones and the only thing that’s common to all of them is that they all sound good….like any guitar maker Martin strives to create tonal diversity amongst their offerings…..just for example…compare an 0-17 to a D-28…. whopping big tone difference….

….fwiw…I’d be hard pressed to point out the difference between a Martin Dreadnought and any number of Dreads made by other companies….and I’ve owned multiple examples of both Martin and non Martin Dreadnoughts….sure some Dreads are more bass heavy….some have sweeter mid range…some have fatter trebles…but I have found those differences amongst various Martin Dreadnoughts….

….as always we all hear what we hear and we don’t all hear the same thing…

[BrunoBlack]

It’s a great day when you hear the tone you love. Enjoy!

[SRL]

Originally Posted by J Patrick

…it’s easy to point to the Martin Dreadnought and say that’s the Martin tone….but in fact their guitar designs are quite diverse and have been for a very long time….

Completely agree. Gotta compare specific models, not whole brands.

As far as the HD-28 that the OP has, versus other similar guitars, the tone comes partly from the dovetail neck joint (makes for a warmer sound, but also neck resets are much more expensive and difficult than bolt-on).

The tone also comes partly from the bracing: forward-shifted 5/16"-thick scalloped X bracing. Lastly, there's the body shape and sound hole size impacts.

For comparison, I have a Breedlove Concerto, about the same dimensions as an HD-28 (20x16x5) and same bracing (noted above) and same woods (sitka/rosewood). Does it sound like an HD-28? Actually yes, in a lot of ways it does. It has a big bass response and a rich, complex sound, but differs in having more note-for-note definition (more clarity), which I attribute primarily to the bolt-on neck and somewhat to the slightly different body shape (small jumbo vs dread).

Anyway, guitars are like baking cakes. A lot of different ingredients and recipes, a lot of different results. Some are super similar, some totally different.

[Rosewood99]

Originally Posted by Ozarkpicker

Nothing really sounds like a Martin...except a Martin.

I don’t think the original post was meaning that it would sound exactly like a Martin. Rather it was more are there other brands that have Martin vibe. And the answer to that would be definitely yes.

[Bob Womack]

I've had some time to compare the various tones of acoustic guitars and I've come to a conclusion or perhaps an analysis about the general tone of Martins vs. Taylors. Martin owners call Taylor guitars "bright" and Taylor owners call Martins either "dark" or "dull." I think I may have spotted the frequency regions that actually shape the difference between the brands. In general, it seems like Martins have a carved out upper midrange and a stronger treble. Taylors have a more pronounced upper midrange and a softer high end. In frequency response only, you move a little towards the upper mid and high frequency response in a martin when you play a cedar-topped Taylor. The upper mid is more rounded off and the high end has a sheen to it.

Of course, then you have to look into the bottom end. I'm not particularly acquainted with the newer Taylors but my comparison of classic Taylors and Martins suggests that the Martins have a looser, more responsive bottom end and the Taylors favor a tighter, more controlled bottom end.

Putting this all together:
Martins might be described as reflecting something of a "Hollywood Curve" or "smiley curve" type response, providing full bass and midrange, a restricted upper mid, and a high end sheen.
Taylors might be described as reflecting something of an inverse smiley or frown type of response, with a restricted bass response, strong mid and upper mid, and a gentler high-end response. Bob Taylor once said that no matter what he changed on his designs they all seemed to "come out of the oven" sounding like a Taylor. That's interesting to me.

Now, keep in mind that my observations aren't "valuative," as in, calling one type good and the other bad, just quantitative, comparing relative amounts. But that's what my ears are telling me. For that matter, my frequency band definitions are influenced by my decades of working on the classic Neve 1073 and 31102 three-band EQs.

The 31102 frequencies were:
High: 10k, 12k, 16k
Mids: 350hz, 700hz, 1.6k, 3.2k, 4.8k, 7.2k
Bass: 35hz, 60hz, 110hz, 220hz

Discuss amongst yourselves and report your findings to the class.


Bob

[GHalliday]

Originally Posted by Troubador

I've wondered what Martin does to get that unique tone that only their guitars have. I loved that tone the first time I ever heard it. I didn't think I could afford a Martin, so I searched for that tone in other, less expensive guitars. I was not able to play anything in person, so I looked at numerous Youtube videos. I bought a solid-wood Norman, and a solid-wood Washburn that I thought was very close to the Martin tone. But when I got these guitars and played them in person, they didn't sound close to a Martin. I then bought a Sigma SDR-28, and it did have the Martin tone -- not as good as the D-28, but still recognizable as made by Martin. The Sigma was not an all solid-wood guitar, but to me it sounded better than the Norman and the Washburn. I ended up giving the latter two to my best friends, and I just sold the Sigma.

About a month ago, I sold a used car I didn't need and bought a Martin HD-28 with the money. I'm very happy. I wish the nut width was 1 3/4 instead of 1 11/16, but I'm hoping I can adjust. This is my dream guitar. It has that unique wonderful tone that I've only heard on a Martin. I just wonder how they do it. The closest I've come to hearing that tone in another guitar is the Gibson J-60.

The thing that Martin does differently is that their guitars are built with a flat rim from the transverse brace back all the way around the lower bout. The entire top is not domed like other makers. While the X-braces and tone bars have a radius, that radius begins an inch or so inside the perimeter of the body. This produces a little more stiffness around the periphery and cost a little volume. But, this is what Martin believes gives their guitars a sweeter more mellow tone. The rim on the upper bout is flat too but angled forward slightly to match the set angle of the neck more closely.

[buddyhu]

Originally Posted by Haasome

It’s a great day when you hear the tone you love. Enjoy!

This^. The details are not important. Hearing something that lights you up and that serves your musical style is what we are all seeking, and sometimes finding.

[Troubador]

Originally Posted by kmtyb

I think one of the unique Martin tone is the forward shifted scalloped X bracing that the HD28 has.

I prefer the non-forward shifted bracing of the older HD-28.

[Troubador]

Originally Posted by Rosewood99

Definitely not those builders. They don’t have the Martin sound. Off the top my head I believe Merrill makes one that has the Martin vibe.

Merrill -- okay, thanks for the tip. I'll try to find some Youtube videos on it. About those builders I listed -- I found some comparison videos, and I didn't think any of them sounded like a Martin, either; I thought the Martin sounded better.

[Rosewood99]

Originally Posted by Troubador

Merrill -- okay, thanks for the tip. I'll try to find some Youtube videos on it. About those builders I listed -- I found some comparison videos, and I didn't think any of them sounded like a Martin, either; I thought the Martin sounded better.

I might be wrong, but I think Bob Thompson makes some guitars as well but are very similar to Martin.

[llew]

Jim Merrill does do a great job but borrowed from another thread here...this is the Martin tone I have in my head and when I hear it...it's just right!

[bufflehead]

The Martin sound: a lot of bass without all the thump. A growl when you want it, but not when you don't. A guitar that can do loud and soft equally well.

What's not to love about that?

[Rosewood99]

Originally Posted by bufflehead

The Martin sound: a lot of bass without all the thump. A growl when you want it, but not when you don't. A guitar that can do loud and soft equally well.

What's not to love about that?

That describes a lot of guitars in my book. I could say that about my Gibson.