#1
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Odd Intonation
Hi all,
I have 2 Eastman dreads that have the same intonation quirk: the 3rd fret G on the low E string is noticeably sharp, 15 cents or more. The adjacent F# and G# are 5+ cents sharp and the rest of the notes on that string are pretty good. Intonation on the other strings is pretty good all over the neck. What can cause this? Both guitars are in excellent shape (one is new), action and neck relief are middle of the road (and certainly no different than my Martin and Ovation, which both have excellent intonation), and the nut slot height is very good. I don’t see anything skewed on the frets. String choice makes no difference. Any ideas? And thanks for the input. John |
#2
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Have you tried a thicker (or thinner) gauge string?
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Mike My music: https://mikebirchmusic.bandcamp.com 2020 Taylor 324ceBE 2017 Taylor 114ce-N 2012 Taylor 310ce 2011 Fender CD140SCE Ibanez 12 string a/e 73(?) Epiphone 6830E 6 string 72 Fender Telecaster Epiphone Dot Studio Epiphone LP Jr Chinese Strat clone Kala baritone ukulele Seagull 'Merlin' Washburn Mandolin Luna 'tatoo' a/e ukulele antique banjolin Squire J bass |
#3
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Same on both Eastman dreads? Fairly new strings?
In standard tuning: Play third fret (G notes) on both strings 1 and 6. Are they in tune with each other? Play open string 3 and third fret 6 string (G notes again). Are they in tune with each other or is string 3 a bit sharp?
__________________
Derek Coombs Youtube -> Website -> Music -> Tabs Guitars by Mark Blanchard, Albert&Mueller, Paul Woolson, Collings, Composite Acoustics, and Derek Coombs "Reality is that which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Woods hands pick by eye and ear
Made to one with pride and love To be that we hold so dear A voice from heavens above |
#4
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That's interesting. I noticed the same on my E2D, but it was actually tuning instability due to a tight nut slot, which was improved with some lube and playing in. I've just checked, and the intonation at 3rd fret is spot on now. As you say, if the nut slot is too high, that would be my first thought. The only other thing I can think of is maybe the nut slot is poorly cut, so that the free end of the string is back from the edge of the nut?
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#5
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It could be the release point on your nut slot is a fraction back from the front edge of the nut for some reason.
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I'm learning to flatpick and fingerpick guitar to accompany songs. I've played and studied traditional noter/drone mountain dulcimer for many years. And I used to play dobro in a bluegrass band. |
#6
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Ninety-nine percent of the time this is caused by a high nut slot. How "very good" is your nut slot height?
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#7
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Sharp notes close to the nut equals high nut slot.
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#8
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I always think of fret height, if all else checks out. Fretting a tall fret will “bend” a note sharp. Sounds like you may have considered this already.
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Dave F ************* Martins Guilds Gibsons A few others 2020 macbook pro i5 8GB Scarlett 18i20 Reaper 7 |
#9
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Agreed. I am heavy handed and do this on many guitars. Try fretting the string closer to the fret.
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As my username suggests, huge fan of Yamaha products. Own many acoustic-electric models from 2009-present and a couple electric. Lots of PA too. |
#10
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I immediately thought high nut slot as well. May just needs to be filed lightly for the string to sit in it better.
On a sort of related note, my new Eastman E2OM-CD came with a couple high frets - the 12 and 14 were high on the high E side , so both required some work. All the fret ends are a tad sharp as well, but nothing bad. That's the only finish issues I had with it, otherwise I very well made guitar for the $. |
#11
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High nut slot and fret one would intonate sharp. OP did not say so.
__________________
Derek Coombs Youtube -> Website -> Music -> Tabs Guitars by Mark Blanchard, Albert&Mueller, Paul Woolson, Collings, Composite Acoustics, and Derek Coombs "Reality is that which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Woods hands pick by eye and ear
Made to one with pride and love To be that we hold so dear A voice from heavens above |
#12
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True, but it could be a combo of the nut slot being just slightly high or too tight and a high fret. I just checked my E2OM-CD and the third fret is slightly sharp if I'm not extremely gentle. Frets just might be a tad high all around. it's not noticeable with regular playing.
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#13
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Quote:
__________________
Derek Coombs Youtube -> Website -> Music -> Tabs Guitars by Mark Blanchard, Albert&Mueller, Paul Woolson, Collings, Composite Acoustics, and Derek Coombs "Reality is that which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Woods hands pick by eye and ear
Made to one with pride and love To be that we hold so dear A voice from heavens above |
#14
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Quote:
I have thoughts.
I know as we grow our ear detection is more selective, and since we feel the guitar as well as hear it, out-of-tuneness is amplified to our senses more than the audience (this is not an excuse to not tune carefully using a proper tuner). My experience from teaching fingerstyle for over 40 years… …Most people overpress the low strings compared to high strings, and the sharpness is noticeable. I don't want to have to fudge the low string flat to make it play in tune when fretted. Hope this adds to the discussion… |
#15
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Thanks, all. I have double and triple checked all the things you've talked about. I will take it to a luthier when I can. I suspect the problem is somewhere in the nut, but I have too many conflicting symptoms to point conclusively to anything. That's why I asked for your collective opinions.
Thanks, John |