Yamaha FG-160 Bulging Top and High Action

[W201]

Greetings All,

I own a Yamaha FG-160 from the mid 70's with a bulging laminated top. As a consequence the action is uncomfortably high. Researching ways to address the issue I discovered that it's common with these guitars, as I'm sure some of you know.

I brought it into guitar center a few years back but the luthier couldn't do much other than a truss rod adjustment. I put the guitar away for a few years, but every so often I play it and it sounds so nice.

I have some new ideas that I wanted to run by you guys (I'm more comfortable working on electrics). One idea is sanding down the saddle, not sure why GC didn't suggest that as an option. Other idea is a JLD Bridge Doctor.

Thanks in advance!

[carmona_nostra]

Is it me or is your 6th string extremely loose and drooping?

[W201]

Originally Posted by carmona_nostra

Is it me or is your 6th string extremely loose and drooping?

It just appears that way. I used zoom to get a closeup pic so the perspective is weird.

[Fathand]

I have a Yamaha FG375S from early 80s. Similar problems. Action has gotten uncomfortably high and some strings are buzzing at the saddle because there is no longer enough break angle/ downward pressure at the saddle.

This is the problem with sanding the saddle down past a certain point. Yours looks like it may be getting low too. You could buy a cheapy plastic saddle and sand it low to test this. I was advised that deepening the string slots towards the saddle may help the buzzing but that it really needs a neck reset.

The price of a neck reset is >= the value of my solid topped FG375S which I believe was top of the line then.

My choices are to learn to do a neck reset myself (weird Asian glue?) or have the neck sawn off and converted to bolt on.

[W201]

Originally Posted by Fathand

I have a Yamaha FG375S from early 80s. Similar problems. Action has gotten uncomfortably high and some strings are buzzing at the saddle because there is no longer enough break angle/ downward pressure at the saddle.

This is the problem with sanding the saddle down past a certain point. Yours looks like it may be getting low too. You could buy a cheapy plastic saddle and sand it low to test this. I was advised that deepening the string slots towards the saddle may help the buzzing but that it really needs a neck reset.

The price of a neck reset is >= the value of my solid topped FG375S which I believe was top of the line then.

My choices are to learn to do a neck reset myself (weird Asian glue?) or have the neck sawn off and converted to bolt on.

You uttered the two words I didn't want to hear. There's not a whole lot of value in this guitar, maybe $200-$350. It does however sound great. It's my favorite sounding acoustic, actually. I've had it for 30 years though, hard to let go. I'd really hate to gut it, but what does a neck reset go for these days? I might just leave it if that's my only option. It plays open chords just fine and I can barre up to the 5th fret for 30 minutes without cramping lol.

[Fathand]

Originally Posted by W201

You uttered the two words I didn't want to hear. There's not a whole lot of value in this guitar, maybe $200-$350. It does however sound great. It's my favorite sounding acoustic, actually. I've had it for 30 years though, hard to let go. I'd really hate to gut it, but what does a neck reset go for these days? I might just leave it if that's my only option. It plays open chords just fine and I can barre up to the 5th fret for 30 minutes without cramping lol.

I was quoted $500-600 Cdn. I plan to do mine someday. Really, I would try sanding down a cheap saddle to see if that works. If it does you can put your original back in and sand it.

[redir]

You can go a bit lower on that saddle if you cut in keyhole slots and ramps up to the saddle. But probably not enough for good action. You are at almost 5/32nds where you should be at 3/32nds which means you need to lower the saddle a whopping 4/32nds. ( 5-3=2x2=4)

You could also sand the bridge down a bit to get more break angle. But that guitar most likely needs a neck reset. Have you looked around on the inside of the guitar to determine that the braces are not part of the problem?

On a guitar like that you can Google up 'Poor man's Neck Reset' and find some videos on how to do it. In short you take a flush cut saw and saw of the neck through the heel flush to the body being very careful in this case to get around the truss rod. Once that is done you will have essentially created a butt joint that will be hanging on by the fretboard. Then with a strip of sand paper you floss in the proper neck angle. Then with some quality thickened epoxy (something like Superbond) get the glue into the butt joint and clamp it shut. Follow that off with one wood screw inset into the heel near the bottom through to the head block. You can try to fill that in or even better just get a long screw for a strap pin and make it look intentional.

[ChrisN]

My '70s Conn was in similar shape, but still sounded great. Big belly dip in front of the bridge, raised behind the bridge. Checked braces - OK. Installed a Bridge Doctor and kept re-tensioning every couple of days to bring the belly down over a couple of weeks. Belly fixed - nice and flat for the past 3+ years.

I also reset the neck to get my action - the belly contributes to high action by raising the back of the bridge, but it isn't the sole cause, and won't fix the need for a reset (or a bridge shave, if you go that way to get better action). Your yamaha has a conventional dovetail and there's good info on getting those apart, but the re-do process can be tricky. My Conn had a weird joint that I could handle.

Once I did the above, I tensioned the Bridge Doctor for best tone, made a new saddle, and all's well. Action's @ 4/64, sounds great.

Poor man's reset loses a smidge of scale length from the saw cut, if that matters to you.

[W201]

There's no way in heck I'm trying a neck reset. I have ZERO woodworking experience and no tools. So that's out of the question. One of the few options left is sanding down the saddle. Didn't think about trying it with a cheap piece of plastic, so thanks for that great recommendation. There's also using a bridge doctor..less intimidating than a neck reset and I have the tools for that.

I will definitely report back if I have any success. Thank you for the suggestions everyone.

[mtdmind]

Those frets look very low.

[Big-E]

I had a similar problem on my 40 year old Yamaha FG365s. In the end I decided to use the method in the link- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTVzGM1Znv8 It does take longer than ten minutes and the guitar needs to be clamped up for at least 3 weeks with a couple of applications of steam. Worked for me and 12 months later the neck hasn't sprung back and the action remains at it's set height. Cost me about £10 for the neck caul. I took the plunge and it worked but I can understand others may not want to try it.

[W201]

Originally Posted by mtdmind

Those frets look very low.

30 years of playing, my dude.

[W201]

Originally Posted by Big-E

I had a similar problem on my 40 year old Yamaha FG365s. In the end I decided to use the method in the link- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTVzGM1Znv8 It does take longer than ten minutes and the guitar needs to be clamped up for at least 3 weeks with a couple of applications of steam. Worked for me and 12 months later the neck hasn't sprung back and the action remains at it's set height. Cost me about £10 for the neck caul. I took the plunge and it worked but I can understand others may not want to try it.

To be honest man, I wish I had the experience to attempt that. This guitar has sentimental value to me. I would on a cheap guitar though.

[Fathand]

Originally Posted by Big-E

I had a similar problem on my 40 year old Yamaha FG365s. In the end I decided to use the method in the link- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTVzGM1Znv8 It does take longer than ten minutes and the guitar needs to be clamped up for at least 3 weeks with a couple of applications of steam. Worked for me and 12 months later the neck hasn't sprung back and the action remains at it's set height. Cost me about £10 for the neck caul. I took the plunge and it worked but I can understand others may not want to try it.

I just might try this in my FG375S. Do the rags go under the bridge or around the neck block?

[Big-E]

Originally Posted by Fathand

I just might try this in my FG375S. Do the rags go under the bridge or around the neck block?

I packed the body with cloth and left a gap around the neck block. Once I'd applied steam to the open area around the neck block I sealed the steam in with rags at the sound hole. I have also successfully used this method on my step-son's acoustic, which was getting close to being unplayable. As his guitar also had an excessive belly bulge I reluctantly added a Bridge Doctor. I would not use either method on an expensive guitar!