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View Poll Results: How would you describe Ovangkol's Frequency Response
Wide frequency with mid-range "Mahogany" boost 12 30.77%
Wide frequency with mid-range scoop (like Rosewood) 15 38.46%
Bright and punchy (like Maple) 3 7.69%
Other (please specify in forum) 9 23.08%
Voters: 39. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 09-27-2021, 10:54 AM
PeteyPower16 PeteyPower16 is offline
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Default Ovangkol's Tonal Profile

As background: Ovangkol has been used as a sustainable alternative tonewood for the last decade or two. Its recognition as an alternative to Rosewood for backs and sides has been promoted by Taylor Guitars, among others (Breedlove, Takamine, etc.). If one searches through this forum, there are several channels comparing Ovangkol to a compromise between Rosewood and Mahogany. The forums say that Ovangkol has the broad frequency spectrum of Rosewood, but with a mid-frequency boost akin to Mahogany. Ovangkol is described as more overtone-heavy than Mahogany (which emphasizes the fundamental tone), and biologically is more closely related to Rosewood; however, almost all the information suggests that Ovangkol differs from the scooped EQ of Rosewood.

A mid-range boost? About a decade ago, Taylor represented each of the tonewoods with a simple bass-mid-treble frequency chart (see previous forum discussion for reference: https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=345689). The chart showed Ovangkol as having a frown shape with the same frequency range as Rosewood's "smile," except with a mid-range boost. This agrees with the description currently on Taylor' website: "Over a decade ago, Taylor introduced the guitar world to a sustainable tonewood known as ovangkol. An African relative of rosewood, it's a great sounding wood that shares many of rosewood's tonal properties, with a slightly fuller midrange and a top end that's not quite as bright as maple" (https://www.taylorguitars.com/guitar...woods/ovangkol, please see also https://www.taylorguitars.com/videos...gkol/89195556/).

Or is it scooped like Rosewood? This last year, Taylor published the article linked below. In this article, Ovangkol's frequency response is presented as being much more similar to Rosewood, and no longer shows the mid-range boost. Instead, it is depicted as having the same "smile" frequency range as Rosewood.
https://woodandsteel.taylorguitars.c...or-tone-woods/

The question: Obviously, the physical frequency response of Ovangkol has not changed in the last year/decade. As an engineer who works in business, I am always seeking to distinguish between the science, the marketing, and the subjectivity of individual opinion. I would think that frequency response is something that could be measured in a scientific way, but maybe not.

Which frequency depiction is more accurate: the smile or the frown?

Also, what could be the reason for Taylor re-interpreting its depiction of Ovangkol's frequency response?

Could the Rosewood similarities in the latest Taylor tonewood article simply be an error/oversight? Could it be to boost the market perception of Ovangkol, depicting it as more similar to Rosewood (noting that the newly-released AD series uses Ovangkol)? Or does this point to the overall subjectivity of differences between tonewoods as interpreted by different listeners, even within the same company?

Here are a few videos that could help with comparing/contrasting (noting limitations of recordings when comparing tonewoods):

https://www.taylorguitars.com/videos...6815-90451922/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ULqXdRle6Q
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Previous Guitars:
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Last edited by PeteyPower16; 09-27-2021 at 03:33 PM.
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  #2  
Old 09-27-2021, 11:04 AM
TokyoNeko TokyoNeko is offline
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My experience with Ovangkol is that it's a very "flat" wood, with very little personality. I suppose it's true that it's somewhere between Mahogany and Rosewood, but not in a good way.

It's neither "hot" or "cold," but "lukewarm." It didn't take me long to "spit out" the two Ovangkol guitars I purchased over the years.
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Old 09-27-2021, 11:17 AM
Rick Shepherd Rick Shepherd is offline
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Not sure how it compares to mahogany, not much experience there. I have a ovangkol Taylor 414 from 1998, and it sounds much brighter, not as much depth tonally overall than my RW guitars. One thing, it does tend to record well! It is definitely a different flavor. It sounds especially bright as a strummer.
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Old 09-27-2021, 11:28 AM
mercy mercy is offline
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not like rosewood, sort of in between rosewood and maple not not like mahogany
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  #5  
Old 09-27-2021, 01:28 PM
Prahanien Prahanien is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TokyoNeko View Post
My experience with Ovangkol is that it's a very "flat" wood, with very little personality. I suppose it's true that it's somewhere between Mahogany and Rosewood, but not in a good way.

It's neither "hot" or "cold," but "lukewarm." It didn't take me long to "spit out" the two Ovangkol guitars I purchased over the years.
Interesting. A 414ce was one of my favorite guitars I ever owned. Very fundamental, much like mahogany but with just a tad extra….not a lot but a tad extra sparkle. All different ears of course. Granted, you can probably bin my opinion because I absolutely cannot stand Rosewood. Sold every single one I owned within weeks of playing them. I refuse to buy another.
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Old 09-27-2021, 01:49 PM
TokyoNeko TokyoNeko is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prahanien View Post
Interesting. A 414ce was one of my favorite guitars I ever owned. Very fundamental, much like mahogany but with just a tad extra….not a lot but a tad extra sparkle. All different ears of course. Granted, you can probably bin my opinion because I absolutely cannot stand Rosewood. Sold every single one I owned within weeks of playing them. I refuse to buy another.
No worries. We all have our tastes and preferences, none of which are empirically better or worse than others. I happen to like rosewoods, especially with my preference for smaller guitars that can use all the complex tone they can get from those woods.

By the way, one of the two Ovangkol guitars that I bought but didn't keep for very long was a Taylor GC4.
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  #7  
Old 09-27-2021, 02:02 PM
mr. beaumont mr. beaumont is offline
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I had an Ovangkol 414ce for a few years...

It was a good guitar, but it did not suit my needs. If anything, I think it sounded a bit like unbroken in Koa strummed hard (a bit "brittle"), and fingerpicked it was bright and clear, with good note separation...a slightly brighter mahogany.

I didn't experience any Rosewood like characteristics from that guitar.

I think it could be a good tonewood, just not my bag.
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  #8  
Old 09-27-2021, 02:26 PM
Rosewood99 Rosewood99 is offline
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I had a Martin Ovangkol Top, back and sides. It had a rich, deep tone to it. I just loved it, but eventually sold it because it was way too quiet.
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Old 09-27-2021, 03:51 PM
PeteyPower16 PeteyPower16 is offline
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Default Ovangkol's Tonal Profile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prahanien View Post
Interesting. A 414ce was one of my favorite guitars I ever owned. Very fundamental, much like mahogany but with just a tad extra….not a lot but a tad extra sparkle. All different ears of course. Granted, you can probably bin my opinion because I absolutely cannot stand Rosewood. Sold every single one I owned within weeks of playing them. I refuse to buy another.


When my 414ce Ovangkol cracked last year, I flirted with a 414ce Rosewood as a warranty replacement. I also found the Sitka/Rosewood/V-braced sound to be a bit “hollow” compared to what I was used to. I ended up going back to what I knew with an Ovangkol 414ce.

Sometimes I wonder if I should have joined the Rosewood train. Perhaps I would feel different with a Lutz (714) or Adirondack top? Perhaps I just like warmer toned guitars—I am a fan of mahogany tops and Koa tops, especially.

I agree with the opinions shared here. Ovangkol can be overly bright, “flat,” and comparatively “uninteresting” to some, but for these same reasons it makes for an excellent overall instrument for a variety of styles. It also has more presence in a live/recording mix than Rosewood to my ears.
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Taylor GS Mini-e Koa Plus 2020
Taylor 414ce 2020
Epiphone Les Paul Standard Blue Sunburst - 2005

Previous Guitars:
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Taylor 414ce 2008 - RIP 2020
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  #10  
Old 09-28-2021, 12:43 AM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
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My Circle Strings parlor guitar is Shedua b/s with a western red cedar top. Shedua is another name for Ovangkol. That parlor is my favorite guitar and to my ear, shedua/ovangkol is very close to mahogany. Not quite as strong in the fundamental note as mahogany but pretty close. More overtones than mahogany but nowhere near the amount you get from rosewood. It's certainly not a wood that would give me reason to hesitate taking a flyer on a guitar.
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Old 10-27-2021, 11:18 PM
Guitarplayer_PR Guitarplayer_PR is offline
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For me, after playing and experimenting with different woods, I'd say that ovangkol is the offspring of rosewood and maple.
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Old 10-28-2021, 02:37 AM
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SalFromChatham SalFromChatham is offline
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I think the premise that Taylor changed their description of the tonal property of Ovangkol is maybe off? This is the description on their website of the AD17e, which I own.

Regarding its tonal properties, I’m not sure I can tell. I know it’s not maple or rosewood. And it maybe is like mahogany? I don’t know. I like how mine sounds though…
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Old 10-28-2021, 08:13 AM
mawmow mawmow is offline
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I play only quiet fingerstyle...

I cannot commit a solid opinion about Ovangkol since I have only one
(or two, or is it cocobolo ?) acoustic having Ovangkol back and sides and I
cannot compare with a similar guitar from same builder but with Mahogany
or Rosewood back and sides. In addition, string types also matter.

Anyway, I am quite satisfied with the tone as well as sound span distribution
over the string spectrum.
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Old 12-10-2021, 11:07 PM
PeteyPower16 PeteyPower16 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteyPower16 View Post

…the description currently on Taylor' website: "Over a decade ago, Taylor introduced the guitar world to a sustainable tonewood known as ovangkol. An African relative of rosewood, it's a great sounding wood that shares many of rosewood's tonal properties, with a slightly fuller midrange and a top end that's not quite as bright as maple" (https://www.taylorguitars.com/guitar...woods/ovangkol, please see also https://www.taylorguitars.com/videos...gkol/89195556/).
I just checked the description I linked a few months ago, and the reference to “not as bright as maple” was changed to “resembling that of koa.”

“An African relative of rosewood, ovangkol shares many of rosewood’s tonal properties, including a wide spectrum from lows and highs. Differences include a slightly fuller midrange and a bright treble response resembling that of koa.”

This seems like a marketing change to me. By calling maple bright (vs. balanced, as Chris McKee at Alamo Music has posited), the old description critiqued both the 600 series and the 400 series as possibly too bright. Or, if someone was seeking a bright tone, then Ovangkol was critiqued as “almost as good” as maple. By comparing it to Rosewood and Koa in the new description, readers interpret this as a wood that is very close to the gold and platinum standards according to many player preferences.

To my ears, Ovangkol is more like a blend of rosewood, mahogany, and maple, and does not sound much like Koa. I guess one could argue that it has a high end frequency and a dryness like Koa, but I do not hear Koa’s sweetness. Ovangkol’s chirpy bright EQ and note separation (despite some low end overtones) reminds me of a warmer overtoned version of maple more than Koa.

If if were to classify Ovangkol’s tone using frequency and other tonewoods, I would say it is like a diluted rosewood in the bass, subtler mahogany in the mids, and a milder maple in the treble frequency. That description won’t sell guitars, but the wood has merit, particularly for live settings where a wide frequency range, balanced bass, clear note separation, and audible presence is desired.
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Taylor 322e 12-Fret 2015
Taylor GS Mini-e Koa 2015
Taylor GS Mini-e Ltd Ovangkol 2019
Taylor GS Mini-e Koa Plus 2020
Taylor 414ce 2020
Epiphone Les Paul Standard Blue Sunburst - 2005

Previous Guitars:
Epiphone DR-100 2006 (est.)
Squier Bullet Blue 2006 (est.)
Taylor 414ce 2008 - RIP 2020
Fender CD-60CE SB-DS-V2 2013

Last edited by PeteyPower16; 12-10-2021 at 11:24 PM.
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Old 12-10-2021, 11:15 PM
PeteyPower16 PeteyPower16 is offline
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Default Ovangkol's Tonal Profile

Quote:
Originally Posted by SalFromChatham View Post
I think the premise that Taylor changed their description of the tonal property of Ovangkol is maybe off? This is the description on their website of the AD17e, which I own.



Regarding its tonal properties, I’m not sure I can tell. I know it’s not maple or rosewood. And it maybe is like mahogany? I don’t know. I like how mine sounds though…
The page you referenced now reads “back and sides of solid ovangkol, an African tonewood that shares rosewood’s warmth and brilliance with additional presence in the midrange” (https://www.taylorguitars.com/guitars/acoustic/ad17). As shown in your posted photo, it used to read “Solid Ovangkol back and sides bring much of the sparkle and low-end presence you would expect from Rosewood, plus a leveled-up midrange for a truly balanced sound up and down the neck.” It seems that these descriptions were updated recently.

That’s a third description of Ovangkol to consider. A “leveled up midrange” is more in line with the frown documentation a decade ago rather than the smile in the latest documentation. Perhaps the recharacterization of the tonewood’s frequency is a difference in how Andy Powers describes the wood vs. Bob Taylor’s approved description? One of these is likely an over/understatement of Ovangkol’s mid-range properties, but I guess it is in the ear of the beholder and dependent on how the company wishes to represent the wood’s sound.
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Ibanez PF-15CE-MS 2003
Taylor 410-CE-L2 2003
Taylor 322e 12-Fret 2015
Taylor GS Mini-e Koa 2015
Taylor GS Mini-e Ltd Ovangkol 2019
Taylor GS Mini-e Koa Plus 2020
Taylor 414ce 2020
Epiphone Les Paul Standard Blue Sunburst - 2005

Previous Guitars:
Epiphone DR-100 2006 (est.)
Squier Bullet Blue 2006 (est.)
Taylor 414ce 2008 - RIP 2020
Fender CD-60CE SB-DS-V2 2013

Last edited by PeteyPower16; 12-10-2021 at 11:52 PM.
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