The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Carbon Fiber

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 07-24-2017, 09:16 AM
Earl49 Earl49 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Idaho
Posts: 9,992
Default shorter scale for twelve string?

My Emerald X20-12 was ordered recently, but the build has not started yet (scheduled December delivery). But this weekend it occurred to me that I enjoy the shorter scale length on the two guitars that have them. What do folks think of selecting 24-3/4" for a twelve string instead of the standard 25.5"?

All of the twelve's I've had were full scale, including the current Taylor 354-LTD. The advantages of shorter scale and possibly lower tension seem worth considering. I normally tune to standard pitch E-e, BTW. This is a comfort thing, not an "I can't play the longer scale" issue.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-24-2017, 09:25 AM
Acousticado's Avatar
Acousticado Acousticado is offline
Anticipation Junkie
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Oh, Canada!
Posts: 17,412
Default

Hi Earl. Never having played a short scale guitar before of any kind, I really don't have a good opinion for you. Without first trying, I might be concerned about a potential for excess jangle and fret buzz. That said, perhaps Alistair can dial it so that these are not issues where you'll have an easier to play 12er. Btw, since your question isn't really CF specific, you may get more and experienced responses if also posting in the General forum.
__________________
Tom
'21 Martin D-18 Standard | '02 Taylor 814c | '18 Taylor 214ceDLX | '18 Taylor 150e-12 | '78 Ibanez Dread (First acoustic) | '08 CA Cargo | '02 Fender Strat American '57 RI
My original songs
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-24-2017, 09:33 AM
Earl49 Earl49 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Idaho
Posts: 9,992
Default

Good point, Acousticado. I try to minimize my time in the General room these days and stick to CF, where the people are nicer. On a wood 12-er, the extra tension helps to drive the top. My thought is that will be less critical in the X20 CF world.

I intend to let this percolate here for a day or so gathering opinions, then ask the experts -- Sean and Alistair at Emerald, to see what they say. I have played my twelve string a fair amount tuned down using a capo on the second fret, and never noticed any buzzing issues before. I could try Eb tuning on my Taylor and capo at the first fret to simulate the short scale, with an ear specifically toward any sound issues.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-24-2017, 09:35 AM
Acousticado's Avatar
Acousticado Acousticado is offline
Anticipation Junkie
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Oh, Canada!
Posts: 17,412
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Earl49 View Post
Good point, Acousticado. I try to minimize my time in the General room these days and stick to CF, where the people are nicer. On a wood 12-er, the extra tension helps to drive the top. My thought is that will be less critical in the X20 CF world.

I intend to let this percolate here for a day or so gathering opinions, then ask the experts -- Sean and Alistair at Emerald, to see what they say. I have played my twelve string a fair amount tuned down using a capo on the second fret, and never noticed any buzzing issues before. I could try Eb tuning on my Taylor and capo at the first fret to simulate the short scale, with an ear specifically toward any sound issues.
Yes, although not a perfect representation on your wood guitars, tuning down and capoing is a very good idea to try.
__________________
Tom
'21 Martin D-18 Standard | '02 Taylor 814c | '18 Taylor 214ceDLX | '18 Taylor 150e-12 | '78 Ibanez Dread (First acoustic) | '08 CA Cargo | '02 Fender Strat American '57 RI
My original songs
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-24-2017, 09:36 AM
gfspencer gfspencer is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: California
Posts: 1,540
Default

I like short-scale guitars. I have two short-scale 12-strings. They are easier for me to play.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-24-2017, 09:53 AM
Matt_Adamas Matt_Adamas is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 144
Default

Heck, I would go for a 24" scale length i.e. an X-7 12 string. I've got a 6 string version and love that little thing.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-24-2017, 09:55 AM
Earl49 Earl49 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Idaho
Posts: 9,992
Default

Thanks. My short-scale six strings are noticeably easier to play most days. I ask in part because the new Taylor 562 Grand Concert twelves are both short scale at 24-7/8". I might have to visit my LGS and see if they have any in stock to test. Now is the time to ask the question....
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-24-2017, 10:03 AM
Doubleneck Doubleneck is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 6,414
Default

I have a Godin Inuk which is a 11 string instrument tuned like a guitar but all strings are doubled except the E bass string is single. It has a scale length of 23, very easy to play.

http://www.godinguitars.com/godininukambiancep.htm
__________________
Steve
2020 McKnight Grand Recording - Cedar Top
2005 McKnight SS Dred
2001 Michael Keller Koa Baby
2014 Godin Inuk
2012 Deering B6 Openback Banjo
2012 Emerald Acoustic Doubleneck
2012 Rainsong JM1000 Black Ice
2009 Wechter Pathmaker 9600 LTD
1982 Yairi D-87 Doubleneck
1987 Ovation Collectors
1993 Ovation Collectors
1967 J-45 Gibson
1974 20th Annivers. Les Paul Custom
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-24-2017, 10:53 AM
Mr. Jelly's Avatar
Mr. Jelly Mr. Jelly is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Sioux City, Iowa
Posts: 7,324
Default

My guess would be that as you shorten the scale it would become more lush and less articulate. At some point as you shorten the scale it would be hard to hear the chord being played except for the bass notes. This would be at the listener's hearing point not the players.
__________________
Waterloo WL-S, K & K mini
Waterloo WL-S Deluxe, K & K mini
Iris RCM-000, 12 fret, slot head, K & K mini
Iris OG, 12 fret, slot head, K & K mini

Another old guitar playing hack
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-24-2017, 10:54 AM
ac ac is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,783
Default

I think Emerald has made more than a few 12 string X7s with 24 inch scales with no issues.

Whether X20 or X7, the 24 inch is 24 inch and you tune standard E-e. Should be good to go.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07-24-2017, 11:48 AM
Guest 928
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I would suspect that short scale instruments have a lighter face in order to handle less tension. That's just a suspicion.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-24-2017, 12:24 PM
kramster kramster is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Phoenix, Az
Posts: 5,968
Default

I have a really... really short scale 12 string and it is fun to play... but then it is an Amicus .
__________________
YUP....
Emerald: X-20, Center hole X-10 (Maple) and X-7 (redwood), Spalted Chen Chen X 10 level 3,
CA: Early OX and Cargo
McPherson: Early Kevin Michael Proto
Some wood things by Epi, Harmony, Takamine, Good Time, PRS, Slick, Gypsy Music, keyboards, wind controllers.. etc
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-24-2017, 12:39 PM
ifret ifret is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Beautiful Northern Michigan
Posts: 2,707
Default

My first (and very likely last) short scale 12-string is the 562ce (24 7/8"). I'm amazed by its comfort. I don't see myself ever going back to a standard 12-string. I'm a fingerpicker, so it just fits my style. It took a few 12-string guitars to get here, plus Taylor introducing these little wonders.
__________________
Susie
Taylors: 914 K24ce 414 GSMeK+
Have been finger-pickin' since 1973!
Mountain Dulcimer player too.

Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-24-2017, 12:48 PM
Earl49 Earl49 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Idaho
Posts: 9,992
Default

I don't want to go quite as far as the Amicus, Kramster, and also want to stick at or near standard guitar pitches I have a 24.25" scale length parlor guitar. It is definitely easier to play, but is enough shorter that it requires a few minutes of adaption, to avoid reaching one fret too far. Ditto for the wife's 22.75" Cargo fret board. That "mama bear" guitar takes a lot of adaptation for me (papa bear).

The 562ce short-scale twelve provoked the original question, Susie. I play about 75% finger style, but on a twelve string it is more like a 50-50 mix. I'm not really looking for a twelve fret to the body neck, just a shorter scale length.

Also I swap the octave and wound G strings on my 12's, so that the upstroke of the index finger hits both strings while fingerpicking. With the normal twelve string configuration (octave on top) I find that high string is shielded and does not normally get plucked -- and is missed. You never notice this when strumming.

Keep the comments coming! This is very helpful and appreciated.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-24-2017, 12:52 PM
Acousticado's Avatar
Acousticado Acousticado is offline
Anticipation Junkie
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Oh, Canada!
Posts: 17,412
Default

Some time ago I was curious about a short scale 6/12 Chimaera and asked Alistair if he had ever built one, and at that time he hadn't. I don't know if he has done one since. As I have been fine with the standard scale Chimaera, I didn't want to take a chance on an untested approach with my new woody one on order.
__________________
Tom
'21 Martin D-18 Standard | '02 Taylor 814c | '18 Taylor 214ceDLX | '18 Taylor 150e-12 | '78 Ibanez Dread (First acoustic) | '08 CA Cargo | '02 Fender Strat American '57 RI
My original songs
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Carbon Fiber

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:38 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=