Help choosing amp, marshal as50, loudbox mini, ultrasound ds4

[rmsstrider]

I currently use a Roland ac33 with a k&k pure mini with a red eye preamp.I am thinking of something with a little more power for outside like farmers market as well as inside small venue. I have tried the Fishman loudbox mini and the Marshal as50d. Have not had a chance to try the Ultrasound. All have good reviews. Which would you suggest for both acoustic and vocals? Price range under 500.00, thanks

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by Rmsstrider01

I currently use a Roland ac33 with a k&k pure mini with a red eye preamp.I am thinking of something with a little more power for outside like farmers market as well as inside small venue. I have tried the Fishman loudbox mini and the Marshal as50d. Have not had a chance to try the Ultrasound. All have good reviews. Which would you suggest for both acoustic and vocals? Price range under 500.00, thanks

Things to consider:

1. None of those options are a huge step up in terms of power.
2. They are all 2 input units.
3. I don't think you end of with enough differentiation after spending $500.

You have a nice small amp already. If you just want 60 watts of power, with the Roland features, I would look into this Bugera amplifier. I have ZERO experience with it, but it's a cheap copy of a Roland AC60, which you have familiarity with. And, yes, it has more power. You'd still be overlapping, but investing less.

Or, you could add a powered speaker to your AC33, inexpensively, and put it on the other side of the stage. You'd use one or two 1/4" guitar cables and go from the unbalanced line outs on your AC33 into one or more channels on the powered speaker. My advice would be to get the mix right on the little amp and then send a mono out to one channel on the speaker.

You could also consider what I posted in this thread.

If you really want want a pro level quality combo unit (under $500), consider the Carvin AG 200 or 300, or the larger Loudbox Artist. You'll get more differentiation for your money.

[rmsstrider]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

Things to consider:

1. None of those options are a huge step up in terms of power.
2. They are all 2 input units.
3. I don't think you end of with enough differentiation after spending $500.

You have a nice small amp already. If you just want 60 watts of power, with the Roland features, I would look into this Bugera amplifier. I have ZERO experience with it, but it's a cheap copy of a Roland AC60, which you have familiarity with. And, yes, it has more power. You'd still be overlapping, but investing less.

Or, you could add a powered speaker to your AC33, inexpensively, and put it on the other side of the stage. You'd use one or two 1/4" guitar cables and go from the unbalanced line outs on your AC33 into one or more channels on the powered speaker. My advice would be to get the mix right on the little amp and then send a mono out to one channel on the speaker.

You could also consider what I posted in this thread.

If you really want want a pro level quality combo unit (under $500), consider the Carvin AG 200 or 300, or the larger Loudbox Artist. You'll get more differentiation for your money.

Thanks very much. Great info. Hadn't considered adding on to my current Roland. But that's another 24 lb box to carry. The Fishman Artist looks more like what I want.the Roland is fun for busking with batteries, so I'll keep it for that. The Fishman sounds like the ticket. I'll try to find one locally that I can try out.

[jricc]

Originally Posted by Rmsstrider01

Thanks very much. Great info. Hadn't considered adding on to my current Roland. But that's another 24 lb box to carry. The Fishman Artist looks more like what I want.the Roland is fun for busking with batteries, so I'll keep it for that. The Fishman sounds like the ticket. I'll try to find one locally that I can try out.

I agree with a previous post that says either the Fishman Loudbox Mini or Marshall will be a big upgrade for more power. That said, I've owned the Marshall AS50 (good amp) and currently own the Fishman Loudbox Artist, I think the Fishman colors the sound less than the Marshall, and I like the vocals more through the Fishman.
Hope this helps.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Rmsstrider01

I currently use a Roland ac33 with a k&k pure mini with a red eye preamp.I am thinking of something with a little more power for outside like farmers market as well as inside small venue. I have tried the Fishman loudbox mini and the Marshal as50d. Have not had a chance to try the Ultrasound. All have good reviews. Which would you suggest for both acoustic and vocals? Price range under 500.00, thanks

Hi Rmsstrider

I've been playing and singing through DS-4 (UltraSound AG-50 amps) for years and they work great in small venues, and would likely be ok outside. However, I'm not sure people would appreciate the step up in quality in a Farmer's Market (if it's outside).

I've seen guys using old Dean (and other) battery powered amps with a single 8"-12" speaker (open back) at bus stops, trolley stops, and parks (and subways) and they were quite effective. Most were going for coverage and volume (and tips), not high quality. The amps I saw were all sub-10 pounds.

If you have a stall and power, the UltraSound has two 8" coax speakers, it's very efficient, and it cranks even though only 50 watts.

[jomaynor]

If you are buying new, you'll want to avoid the Ultrasound, since their customer service has virtually disappeared after Dean Markley took over the brand.

Fishman, and Marshall, too, are both known for their customer service.

[CASD57]

I've mentioned before...
I've got a ..
Bugera AC60
and a
Ultrasound AG15
Coming in today...I'll trying and have a first hand review this weekend..

[Irish Pennant]

I know you're asking about amps but I would keep your current amp and buy a powered speaker and run it through your amp. It would give your more range, coverage and flexibility in that it would be somewhat modular, when you didn't need the extra power you could leave it at home. I have a pair Yamaha DBR12s, that I use with a mixer but every now and then I'll plug one into my Fishman Loudbox Mini, sounds just fine.

A decent 12" speaker on a pole will give you a power boost and a higher quality sound, more than any of the amps by themselves.

[rmsstrider]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

Things to consider:

1. None of those options are a huge step up in terms of power.
2. They are all 2 input units.
3. I don't think you end of with enough differentiation after spending $500.

You have a nice small amp already. If you just want 60 watts of power, with the Roland features, I would look into this Bugera amplifier. I have ZERO experience with it, but it's a cheap copy of a Roland AC60, which you have familiarity with. And, yes, it has more power. You'd still be overlapping, but investing less.

Or, you could add a powered speaker to your AC33, inexpensively, and put it on the other side of the stage. You'd use one or two 1/4" guitar cables and go from the unbalanced line outs on your AC33 into one or more channels on the powered speaker. My advice would be to get the mix right on the little amp and then send a mono out to one channel on the speaker.

You could also consider what I posted in this thread.

If you really want want a pro level quality combo unit (under $500), consider the Carvin AG 200 or 300, or the larger Loudbox Artist. You'll get more differentiation for your money.

I called Sweetwater about the suggested Yamaha powered speaker and was told that I would have 2 different sounds ? The sound from the Roland and a different sound from the powered speaker. So now I am confused. The powered speaker sounds like a good idea, I could use it or leave home. Any clarity welcome. Also, with the powered speaker, do I run a separate cable for vocals as well as guitar? As you can tell, I am not well versed in this. Trying to learn

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by Rmsstrider01

I called Sweetwater about the suggested Yamaha powered speaker and was told that I would have 2 different sounds ? The sound from the Roland and a different sound from the powered speaker. So now I am confused. The powered speaker sounds like a good idea, I could use it or leave home. Any clarity welcome. Also, with the powered speaker, do I run a separate cable for vocals as well as guitar? As you can tell, I am not well versed in this. Trying to learn

The powered speaker would be your front of house and your Roland would be your monitor. Keep the monitor quiet and I don't know how it would interfere. Tommy Emmanuel runs like this with an AER 60.

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[guitargabor]

The Carvin acoustic amps would suit your purpose.I have owned one of them as well as your ac-33.No comparison.You will probably want to sell the AC 33 if you purchase one one of the Carvins.I think they have some discounts presently.

I play Farmers markets etc and have used an AER compact 60 for the past 6 years.The light weight is a factor in its favor.The Carvin I owned was up there in sound quality to the AER but weighed(for me) a bulky 35 ibs.

[Irish Pennant]

Originally Posted by Rmsstrider01

I called Sweetwater about the suggested Yamaha powered speaker and was told that I would have 2 different sounds ? The sound from the Roland and a different sound from the powered speaker. So now I am confused. The powered speaker sounds like a good idea, I could use it or leave home. Any clarity welcome. Also, with the powered speaker, do I run a separate cable for vocals as well as guitar? As you can tell, I am not well versed in this. Trying to learn

My Fishman Loudbox Mini has an XLR out and the Yamaha DBR12 has an XLR in. The amp plugs directly into the speaker. To my ears, the sound is just bigger, not necessarily different. I do change the eq setting on the amp some to accommodate the bigger sound. If it is different, it's not in a bad way.

The Roland AC33 has a line out, as for the run, it's one cable from the amp to the speaker. Your guitar and your mic would plug into your amp.

[rmsstrider]

Ok, so know I have a different question. Please pardon my ignorance.
I use the k&k pure mini through a Red eye preamp that gives me some control over boost and gain and then to a TC Helicon Harmony Singer and then to my Roland AC33. What if I take the Roland out of the equation and go directly to a powered speaker? Would that work ?

[martingitdave]

Hi OP, here is a thread I started on your most recent question.


Do you need an expensive acoustic amp or PA?

This is intended to promote discussion of the pros/cons of the following suggestion.



I posted in a few other threads about my recent experience with the TC Helicon play acoustic product. This product (or similar Boss VE-8) is a single pedal that provides a few important features that acoustic amplifiers and compact PA systems don't. I'm leaving the harmony and "auto tune" features out of this discussion, because they are not universally appreciated.



These features are incredibly useful for most any singer/songwriter/acoustic guitarist. I will call them singer/songwriter boxes, for now. (SS boxes)



For instance, only one manufacturer includes a built in acoustic resonance in their amplifier products (Line 6). The rest do not have this option. But, it is available in the SS boxes. As of today, I am totally sold on this "one button" technology. This is especially useful for folks with UST or SBT systems. Multisource mic systems benefit to a lesser extent. For example, I dialed my body res setting back to 50% because I am mixing 50/50 mic and pickup.



Secondly, these singer/songwriter boxes provide microphone vocal processing and effects that enhance a singer's voice. While you can find reverb and sometimes chorus, it doesn't compare to the magic in the SS boxes. I have a strong tenor voice, but I sound MUCH better with the "mic mechanic" features enabled. I've never had so many compliments on my voice. Note above that I am not referring to the "auto tune" pitch correction features.



So, to that end, should folks who play out for audiences consider getting one of these SS boxes, dial it in to their tastes and simply pair with a high quality powered speaker appropriate for the venue? There are so many compact PA and powered speaker products on the market. Single speaker, line array, plenty of power, full range, and some DSP included, you can cover any venue.



Reasons for using a SS box and a no frills full range speaker:

1. Less invested in sound reinforcement gear

2. More invested in tone shaping "musical" gear

3. Fully scalable, portable, and independently upgradable

4. You can use anyone's (venue's) speakers and still sound good

5. Less reliance on third party sound person

6. Practice anywhere with your fully mixed sound

7. Inexpensive factory pickup systems sound good enough with SS box.

8. Avoid the cost of carrying your own DI box.



Reasons this might not work:



1. Other musicians sharing the system would be disadvantaged

2. A user's disinterest in pedals or technology in general

3. Another thing to carry plus an extra 3 cables

4. A user is otherwise satisfied with their system

5. You can't just walk up, plug in and play in an open mic scenario.

6. There are endless other ways to accomplish the same thing

7. I just bought an expensive (insert Bose, Fishman, AER, Schertler, Carvin, Line 6, etc.) system last week!



In my case, I have a great 2 channel Line 6 product that sounds beautiful for the acoustic guitar and very good for the vocals. But, my vocals sound better through the SS box and the guitar is just as good or better. As of now, I am dumping the SS box into the line input on the speaker and using a flat EQ and reference PA mode. It sounds great. Now, I don't need the mixer and features built into the speaker. I just need the speaker. I could even downsize or upsize the speakers and sound just as good. It's temping to leave the SS box at home and say I'll only use the speaker, guitar and mic. But, my vocals wouldn't sound as good. And, after the guitar, mic, two leads, mic stand, speaker, power cable, speaker pole, the SS box, power brick and one extra XLR cable seems insignificant.



Thoughts?

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[rmsstrider]

Originally Posted by Rmsstrider01

Thanks very much. Great info. Hadn't considered adding on to my current Roland. But that's another 24 lb box to carry. The Fishman Artist looks more like what I want.the Roland is fun for busking with batteries, so I'll keep it for that. The Fishman sounds like the ticket. I'll try to find one locally that I can try out.

Ok I looked at the Yamaha powered speaker with 100 watts 8" speaker. For less money I was able to buy a new Carvin PM10A, 400 watts 10" speaker with eq. The 12" was not much more, but bigger and heavier than I wanted. I hope to have in about 1 week. I can always return. They seem to be a good company to work with.