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  #76  
Old 02-29-2012, 07:50 PM
RussB RussB is offline
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I don't understand the question? The nut height is all about the nut & 1st fret.


I dislike the word "shave" as applied here. You sand a saddle, you file nut slots. You shave your facel
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  #77  
Old 02-29-2012, 09:25 PM
charles Tauber charles Tauber is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the.ronin View Post
the change is the inverse of the ratio of the distance from the saddle to the fret in question versus the entire length to the nut... But mathematically, would that still hold?
My back-of-the-envelop calculations suggest yes.

Last edited by charles Tauber; 02-29-2012 at 11:39 PM.
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  #78  
Old 03-01-2012, 10:19 AM
the.ronin the.ronin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RussB View Post
I dislike the word "shave" as applied here. You sand a saddle, you file nut slots. You shave your facel
LOL this is true!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by charles Tauber View Post
My back-of-the-envelop calculations suggest yes.
Thank you, sir!

I know I know … less quantitative more qualitative. But the math nerd in me just needed to know.

So I’ve run out of guitars to set up (and re-setup) so I’ll be bugging some friends to see if they are brave enough. Or maybe my dad’s. If I can’t find anything, I’ll go to my ukes.
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  #79  
Old 03-01-2012, 11:53 AM
charles Tauber charles Tauber is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the.ronin View Post
I know I know … less quantitative more qualitative. But the math nerd in me just needed to know.
I have absolutely nothing against quantitative approaches. I simply encourage people to be aware of both approaches and apply whatever works best for each person in each situation. One size doesn't fit all or every situation.
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  #80  
Old 03-05-2012, 08:39 PM
kbroce kbroce is offline
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Originally Posted by the.ronin View Post
Thanks kbroce but I think you may have responded to a different thread.

Notwithstanding, this brings up another point in my luthiery quest … checking intonation.

My intonation check process may be very limited …

Nevermind fixing intonation – I have no experience in that at all. But as far as checking intonation, I rely entirely on the 12th fret harmonic using a chromatic tuner. The Samson CT20 I use is nice since it shows lines by cent. But other than that, this is the only way I check for intonation issues. Of course I play the guitar as well to see if it sounds great but I don’t know many songs that cover the length of the fretboard to really rely on that to check intonation.
Nope, I specifically posted this here. Peterson has an iphone app that costs money but may be worth it. Trying to setup and intonate a guitar with an inaccurate tuner is like using an inaccurate ruler to, well, do anything you would want an accurate measurement with.
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  #81  
Old 03-13-2012, 11:46 PM
the.ronin the.ronin is offline
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Originally Posted by kbroce View Post
Nope, I specifically posted this here. Peterson has an iphone app that costs money but may be worth it. Trying to setup and intonate a guitar with an inaccurate tuner is like using an inaccurate ruler to, well, do anything you would want an accurate measurement with.
Unfortunately, I don't have an iPhone but am interested in looking into more precise tuners. Any recommendations? I saw Peterson now makes a clip-on tuner but I'm guessing something that reads out the cents more clearly would be better?
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  #82  
Old 03-14-2012, 11:56 PM
the.ronin the.ronin is offline
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Do you guys think this Boss TU-12EX would be precise enough for intonation work or would a strobe tuner really be best suited?

It claims to be accurate +/-1 ct which is up there with the Peterson strobe tuners. But I'm wondering if the visual of the true (as opposed to digital) strobe is what really aids in the precision tuning? (As opposed to eyeballing the needle on the Boss.)
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  #83  
Old 03-15-2012, 08:24 AM
charles Tauber charles Tauber is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the.ronin View Post
Do you guys think this Boss TU-12EX would be precise enough for intonation work or would a strobe tuner really be best suited?
I think you have to decide exactly what your needs are first. If you are going to set-up the intonation on the occasional guitar, the Boss is probably sufficient. If you are going to experiment with temperaments, compensated nuts, et al, you'll want something more easily read and more capable, which will be significantly more expensive.

I purchased a Peterson digital strobe, about $250, that I'm only so-so with. I'd suggest either a needle type, like the Boss, or true strobe ($600 or so) and avoid the middle ground, at least for acoustic work.
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  #84  
Old 03-15-2012, 12:43 PM
the.ronin the.ronin is offline
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As always, thanks for your concise input Charles.

Ultimately, I’d like to up my setup skills and start doing intonation repairs as well. Even on my Samson chromatic tuner, I’m seeing intonation off at the 12th by just shy of 10 cents on 2 of the strings which as you pointed out would be noticeable to a trained ear.

$600 wouldn’t really make sense for my hobbyist application. $250 I might be able to pull off.

I have been eyeing the Turbo Tuner which seems both affordable and effective. They just finished production on the ST-122A which has a built-in mic for acoustics. (The price is actually $170 now and not the $130 listed on the site for the older ST-122.) Alternatively, I was thinking of just going with the ST-200 stompbox version which is just as accurate but I would need to get a mic or adapter like this one which is no biggy.

Watching some videos on how these strobes work, I can definitely see the advantage to them over conventional tuners.
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  #85  
Old 03-18-2012, 05:37 PM
the.ronin the.ronin is offline
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I think I'm down to two choices for precision tuners:

Peterson StroboClip or Turbo Tuner ST-122a

That's actually the older model ST-122 linked. The new's one out though for $170. The Peterson clip-on is $70.

Any recommendations between the two?
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  #86  
Old 03-19-2012, 05:31 PM
the.ronin the.ronin is offline
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Decided to throw caution to the wind and pick up the new ST-122a. Estimated shipping times are all over the place lol. I guess they are still very back ordered or something. I’m hoping to get it next week.

I’m beginning to see that “setup” can really be looked at in terms of playability (dictated by action) and sound (dictated by intonation). Both are interrelated physically but the bulk of my learning (and I believe the easier of the two) has focused on playability. Let’s see how far I can get on the sound part.

I’m aiming to limit any intonation adjustments to the saddle and nut … maybe correcting any issues I cause trying to address playability. Bridge plate removal, saddle slot refitting and the sort are just out of my league and likely best left to real professionals.
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  #87  
Old 03-19-2012, 07:16 PM
charles Tauber charles Tauber is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the.ronin View Post
I’m beginning to see that “setup” can really be looked at in terms of playability (dictated by action) and sound (dictated by intonation). Both are interrelated physically but the bulk of my learning (and I believe the easier of the two) has focused on playability. Let’s see how far I can get on the sound part.
Sounds like you're on the right track.

Intonation requires more academic understanding, but isn't particularly complicated in its implementation. You also have to accept that "perfect" just isn't a possibility. The academic understanding makes that clear.
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  #88  
Old 03-21-2012, 03:13 PM
the.ronin the.ronin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charles Tauber View Post
Sounds like you're on the right track.
I think I just had a Luke Skywalker jedi padawan moment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by charles Tauber View Post
You also have to accept that "perfect" just isn't a possibility. The academic understanding makes that clear.
Even absent the second sentence, I already suspected what you meant was less a subjective statement about idealism but rather an objective fact about the math. Among other resources, I’ve come across this article on intonation which I'm going over.

Also, the ST122a shipped yesterday!! Took a little bit of hemming, hawing, and AFG name dropping but whatever it shipped yesterday!! Can’t wait to see how this thing works.
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  #89  
Old 03-21-2012, 03:23 PM
RussB RussB is offline
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I have the floor model Turbo Tuner on my pedal board, and I use it to intonate. It's very accurate for sure
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  #90  
Old 03-21-2012, 06:45 PM
charles Tauber charles Tauber is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the.ronin View Post
I’ve come across this article on intonation which I'm going over.
A good and thorough article.
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