#61
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Captain Jim, a Les Paul has 22 frets? A PRS has 24. I asked the General Area if their are other acoustics with 24 frets, no one came up with one. Someone said it would interfere with the sound hole, thus the offset soundhole frees up the design for 24.
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Steve 2020 McKnight Grand Recording - Cedar Top 2005 McKnight SS Dred 2001 Michael Keller Koa Baby 2014 Godin Inuk 2012 Deering B6 Openback Banjo 2012 Emerald Acoustic Doubleneck 2012 Rainsong JM1000 Black Ice 2009 Wechter Pathmaker 9600 LTD 1982 Yairi D-87 Doubleneck 1987 Ovation Collectors 1993 Ovation Collectors 1967 J-45 Gibson 1974 20th Annivers. Les Paul Custom |
#62
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As a dealer I get to play hundreds of different guitars, and end up discussing guitars with several hundred people each year, so I have a pretty good idea as to what people like, and what could be deal breakers. Number of frets aside, if a fretboard covers all or part of the area where most of us tend to strum an acoustic, it could be a problem. Some folks might simply adjust their playing style, but given all the options we have, in my experience most will not. So if I were making one suggestion to Alistair as to how he could make the x20 more appealing to a larger group of players, it would be to reduce the length of the fretboard, because to me, anything unnecessary that turns some people off is a design flaw. He could make 20 frets standard, and offer 24 frets as an option. Does that make sense? |
#63
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However Jimmy, how did you get from complimenting the minimal break angle I achieved on my Shorty just a few weeks ago (I even took the time to take a picture and post it to directly address your question) to Rainsongs having a design flaw? Like Kerbie said, design flaw is something different- on guitars they would be intonation problems, bad neck sets (like pre-Peavey CA guitars), bad finish jobs, or other actual failures that are the subject of recalls. The fact that I've achieved an expert set up on my RainSong for my style of play and preferences speaks the exact opposite of design flaw. I think the appropriate word here is precision. Neither of these manufacturers are turning out design flaws. They are creating instruments that are aesthetically appealing or not, have specs that speak to us or don't, and a creative approach to their building processes. Big difference!
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Don't chase tone. Make tone. |
#64
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I would like to remind everyone to follow rule #1 here or this thread is gone. Thank you and have a good rest of the weekend.
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PS. I love guitars! |
#65
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This 24 fret discussion is really interesting, and very well timed. It is something that I have never considered before. Thanks for bringing it up, Ted.
All weekend long, I have been on the verge of clicking "add to cart" for the in-stock Opus X20-12 twelve string. There is also some vacillation toward Artisan to get the lovely green tint, which would add a pickup (that I don't need) and a full glossy finish (which my wife likes - gotta keep her happy too). But since Emerald would have to build an Artisan from scratch anyway, that might also give me the option of shortening the fret board to 20 frets. I play finger style beyond fret #12 a fair amount, but rarely beyond #17. I need to ask Sean on Monday. I have to dig out my Taylor T5, which does not have a center sound hole. I have noticed on occasion that when playing that one, my fingers sometimes hit the top where a sound hole isn't, but I don't recall hitting the fingerboard with fingers or with a pick as being an issue. I never even considered the fret board length on the X20, but T5 is my only guitar without a center sound hole. Guess I should also play the wife's Cargo too - an offset sound hole there as well, but I rarely play her Cargo because of the short scale. Hmmm....... something else to ponder. |
#66
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I had a Les Paul for a while 30 years or so ago - now I remember why I moved it on: not enough frets! |
#67
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Tom '21 Martin D-18 Standard | '02 Taylor 814c | '18 Taylor 214ceDLX | '18 Taylor 150e-12 | '78 Ibanez Dread (First acoustic) | '08 CA Cargo | '02 Fender Strat American '57 RI My original songs |
#68
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Exciting to hear that your are "just about there." I have to say, before this thread, I never counted the number of frets on my X20... just play it and enjoy it. The only "adjustment" I had to make was in the power I use when strumming/flat picking; with other guitars, I found myself digging in more - not necessary with the X20. I would not consider myself an aggressive strummer (no pick marks in any of my guitars... well, maybe that Taylor GSmini, but I haven't looked at it in a while ) So, for me, the number of frets (or any downside of that) is a non-issue. As a competitive businessperson, I prefer to accentuate the positive... with the X20, I get more frets for my investment. When you're ready to buy that X20-12, you will also be getting a guitar from the only carbon fiber manufacturer who currently offers a 12-string in their line-up... and, you get the most excellent soundhole and 24 frets for no additional charge! OMG, now I want to buy an Emerald 12-string! Stop the madness!! Last edited by TomB'sox; 07-09-2017 at 05:19 PM. Reason: rule number 1 |
#69
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Yea, I'm thinking of a double neck, but I have to wait till the custom X20 arrives first.
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2001 Goodall RGCC 2004 Goodall RPC-14 2022 Emerald X20 Hyvibe 2021 Emerald X7 Select 2020 Emerald X10 Woody Select 3-way 2016 Emerald X20 Artisan 2002 Gibson J185EC JJ Cale 2009 Gibson EC-20 1974 Alvarez Dreadnought 2013 Woody Tahitian hybrid Uke 2008 Zager 3/4 Size Some camp fire guitars, classical's, & electric's |
#70
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An X20 with H.R. Geiger artwork laminated into the guitar. I bet that would sell.
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#71
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Thanks, Earl. Since we sell most of our guitars long distance, I have a habit of looking for things that might cause a guitar to be returned. Over the years I've made many suggestions to the builders I deal with, in fact I suggested changing to an offset sound hole on the x7 to Alistair back in 2009 as a way of adding needed base response. It will be interesting to see if Alistair makes any changes to the x20 based on my findings, and if he does, it will be even more interesting to see what the people defending the current design will say.
Last edited by Ted @ LA Guitar Sales; 07-09-2017 at 06:25 PM. |
#72
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Thanks, Earl. Since we sell most of our guitars long distance, I have a habit of looking for things that might cause a guitar to be returned. Over the years I've made many suggestions to the builders I deal with, in fact I suggested changing to an offset sound hole on the x7 to Alistair back in 2009 as a way of adding needed base response. It will be interesting to see if Alistair makes any changes to the x20 based on my findings, and if he does, it will be even more interesting to see what the people defending the current design will say. [/QUOTE]I admit that at first I found the X20 combined offset soundhole/soundport a little odd looking to the point that I thought I would never get one, but as time goes on, I get it and even like it enough to consider it at some point. Those that own them seem to really like them, including for time and playability. The number of frets is irrelevant to me, same with reported increased volume of the combined offset soundhole/soundport design. I easily adapt.
That said, I really like the look and effect of the top and bottom offset soundholes on the Chimaera and am curious to see an X20 with the Chimaera's top soundhole design (which really is what the X20 already has) along with the X20s existing side soundport, but with an aesthetic, strong "bridge" dividing the two. This would make the X20 look more like the Chimaera, giving the X20 a less odd look from angles where the entire opening shows. Likely not a custom option, but I think it would better suit my visual aesthetic. I would love the sunburst Savoy, but given the cost, I will still consider an X20 in the future even with its current design.
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Tom '21 Martin D-18 Standard | '02 Taylor 814c | '18 Taylor 214ceDLX | '18 Taylor 150e-12 | '78 Ibanez Dread (First acoustic) | '08 CA Cargo | '02 Fender Strat American '57 RI My original songs Last edited by TomB'sox; 07-09-2017 at 05:48 PM. Reason: Removed edited quote |
#73
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You are right on using the word "precision", with good setup, the individually-perceived "design flaw" can be corrected. The word "design flaw" is too big to be use here. I shall keep myself quiet on this thread from now on. |
#74
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I think the 24 frets is more of a "design choice" instead of a design flaw. The Emeralds do look different, I think they are beautiful, especially those woodies! Has anyone ever inquired about a 12 fret X20? That may get me to do a custom order.
Earl49 - You can order an Opus in a different color. They consider it a custom, but the price is more than reasonable. I have a red Opus, no pickup.
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John |
#75
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Don't chase tone. Make tone. |