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  #16  
Old 09-14-2021, 02:37 AM
steveh steveh is offline
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Looks to me like he's out to prove something.
He should have been doing that for the last 5 years.

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Originally Posted by Brucebubs View Post
I'm thinking maybe he doesn't want to be forever known as Lewis Hamilton's number 2 driver in the same way Mark Weber was to Sebastian Vettel and Rubens Barrichello was to Michael Schumacher
Unfortunately for Bottas, that's exactly how history will remember him. Just like those you mention, along with Massa. We all remember the "Schumacher's tortoise" jibes.

In 2018, Hamilton won 11 GP, Bottas zero. Same car.

Cheers,
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Last edited by steveh; 09-14-2021 at 03:01 AM.
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  #17  
Old 09-14-2021, 03:44 AM
AX17609 AX17609 is offline
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The stewards called both Hamilton and Verstappen after the race and concluded that the Red Bull Racing driver was at fault. As a result, Verstappen received a three-place grid penalty for the Russian GP.
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  #18  
Old 09-14-2021, 06:17 AM
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In 2018, Hamilton won 11 GP, Bottas zero. Same car.

Cheers,
Steve
No wins .. but he still managed 8 podiums which is exactly where Lewis wanted him... no way did Lewis want a repeat of 2016!

2022 is going to be interesting - George Russell has already said he's not joining Mercedes to be Lewis Hamilton's number 2 driver!
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  #19  
Old 09-14-2021, 08:02 AM
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I'm pretty new to F1 (I don't even get to watch the races themselves - long story) but it sure seems to me from what has happened so far this season that Hamilton gets far more benefit of the doubt than any other driver. There is absolutely no question he is a fantastic driver but things do seem to go more his way than against him. I'm just saying...

As to Russell joining Mercedes, I believe it will most definitely be interesting. Isn't Wolf Russell's "manager" or something like that? How will that play into Russell driving for Mercedes while Hamilton is still doing so, all while Mr. Wolf is heading up things...

Again, I'm new to F1 but sometimes it seems rather incestuous and confusing at times...

I'm very happy for Ricciardo however. I read he basically led the entire race so it's not like he only won because he took advantage of the carnage between Max and Hamilton.

Best,
PJ
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  #20  
Old 09-14-2021, 10:31 PM
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Just watched, after my 2 day on demand delay. Great race. Congratulations to Ricardo, Norris and McClaren. More tomorrow.
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  #21  
Old 09-14-2021, 10:43 PM
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I'm very happy for Ricciardo however. I read he basically led the entire race so it's not like he only won because he took advantage of the carnage between Max and Hamilton.

Best,
PJ
As a fellow Aussie I'm super pleased Dan got a win but things may have been a little different if Bottas had started on pole.

Also a lot of respect to Dan's team mate Lando Norris - he has clearly outdriven Ricciardo all this season and to hold back, not challenge him and finish 2nd despite having never won a Grand Prix himself shows amazing control and team dedication.

I would have been equally happy if they'd finished Norris-Ricciardo 1-2.
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  #22  
Old 09-14-2021, 11:10 PM
Jeff Scott Jeff Scott is offline
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Also a lot of respect to Dan's team mate Lando Norris - he has clearly outdriven Ricciardo all this season and to hold back, not challenge him and finish 2nd despite having never won a Grand Prix himself shows amazing control and team dedication.
He acted very much like the gentleman drivers of yore. We need more of that kind of driving in this sport.
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  #23  
Old 09-15-2021, 12:32 AM
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He acted very much like the gentleman drivers of yore. We need more of that kind of driving in this sport.
A very mature team-based attitude there too Jeff, I read where he saw the Hamilton-Verstappen carnage and was not willing to risk making a similar mistake in trying to overtake his team mate Ricciardo for the win so he accepted the team 1-2 directive.

There are many drivers who wouldn't do that - Vettel did it to Weber and Hamilton did it to Rosberg.

I really look forward to Lando's first win - he deserves it!
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  #24  
Old 09-15-2021, 02:38 AM
Silly Moustache Silly Moustache is offline
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Bottas has gone public saying that it was his decision to leave Mercedes as they offered him a one year contract, but Alpha Romeo offered him a 4 year contract , and effectively as No.1 driver

Can't find the source now - somewhere on YouTube I think.
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  #25  
Old 09-15-2021, 11:03 AM
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Really happy for Riccardo. After many years down, it appears that McLaren is back. Norris is a terrific driver. One wonders if he might move to Mercedes when Lewis retires. Anyway, for now, let's hope the one-two punch of McLaren continues for a while. This season it seems to be that the top upper tier teams are clearly Mercedes, Red Bull and McLaren, with Ferrari a distant fourth.

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  #26  
Old 09-15-2021, 02:20 PM
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Hi Steve, I can't remember who asked me NOT to blurb the results of races, and I don't see it as a "beef" but a polite request, which impressed upon me that not everyone in every timezone is going to watch it live as I do.
I asked you Andy, not to put results in the title of a thread, where seeing it could not be avoided. I DID NOT ask that results not be discussed inside a thread, which would be an unreasonable request. As the poster above noted, no reasonable person would think that they could enter a sports-themed thread and not expect to see discussion of the result. I just asked that the results not be in the thread title.

And which is something that I have pointed out to you when you have raised my request in every subsequent race thread since. So why are you still trying to make an issue of it?
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  #27  
Old 09-15-2021, 02:32 PM
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I'm seeing a little game developed between Bottas and Mercedes since they informed him he won't be with them next year.

Firstly he posted a fastest race lap last week when ordered to back off so Lewis could gain the extra point.

At Monza he was fastest again and won the sprint race putting him on pole ... until the team decided to change components on his car which relegated him to the very back of the grid.

And in a stunning drive he came from dead last to finish 3rd!

Looks to me like he's out to prove something.
Well, Mercedes did decide to do the upgrades and take the penalty prior to friday qualifying at Monza, so it was not done because he was on pole. But otherwise I do think that there is something to your theory. Sadly, he has had a rough season so far, and he could not come through when it might have saved his drive. Now that things have been sorted, he must feel like he is out from under a lot of pressure. I'm sure that he wanted Mercedes to know what the have let go. He did back off at the end of that fastest lap, (unfortunately not quit enough and still was fastest). He also played the team game at Monza by repeatedly giving Hamilton a tow during qualifying.I am sure that he will support Hamilton and the race for the Constructors, but with a little bit of "me" in there as well.
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  #28  
Old 09-15-2021, 02:44 PM
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The stewards called both Hamilton and Verstappen after the race and concluded that the Red Bull Racing driver was at fault. As a result, Verstappen received a three-place grid penalty for the Russian GP.
I think that, similar to Silverstone, there was some fault that could be apportioned to either side. Should Hamilton have left more room? Probably. Should Verstappen have taken the exit cutout similarly to the way that Perez did when trying to pass LeClerc during the sprint race? Probably. I am just pleased taht it appears that the Halo did it's job and it looks like everyone walked away. (I was watching the broadcast from Imola back in the day when Ayrton Senna was killed)

It will be interesting to see if Red Bull has Max take his engine penalty along with the Monza penelty at Sochi, given how hard it is to pass there...
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  #29  
Old 09-15-2021, 02:49 PM
Mycroft Mycroft is offline
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Originally Posted by Photojeep View Post
I'm pretty new to F1 (I don't even get to watch the races themselves - long story) but it sure seems to me from what has happened so far this season that Hamilton gets far more benefit of the doubt than any other driver. There is absolutely no question he is a fantastic driver but things do seem to go more his way than against him. I'm just saying...

As to Russell joining Mercedes, I believe it will most definitely be interesting. Isn't Wolf Russell's "manager" or something like that? How will that play into Russell driving for Mercedes while Hamilton is still doing so, all while Mr. Wolf is heading up things...

Again, I'm new to F1 but sometimes it seems rather incestuous and confusing at times...

I'm very happy for Ricciardo however. I read he basically led the entire race so it's not like he only won because he took advantage of the carnage between Max and Hamilton.

Best,
PJ
If you could stream it, F1 has an on demand streaming package including all the races, practices and qualifying, along with a number of analysis shows. $27 a year, so quite a value. The catch is that there is a two day delay before you can watch it.

I think that while Russell may claim that his not "Hamilton's #2" he is going to have to prove that out on the track. I'll bet that he is on a pretty short leash. He also knows that he is there to learn and that, given that Hamilton will probably retire in the next couple of years, he will get his shot.
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  #30  
Old 09-15-2021, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Brucebubs View Post
As a fellow Aussie I'm super pleased Dan got a win but things may have been a little different if Bottas had started on pole.

Also a lot of respect to Dan's team mate Lando Norris - he has clearly outdriven Ricciardo all this season and to hold back, not challenge him and finish 2nd despite having never won a Grand Prix himself shows amazing control and team dedication.

I would have been equally happy if they'd finished Norris-Ricciardo 1-2.
Maybe. Max was on pole, but was beat at the first corner by Riccardo, and then could not get past him. Daniel's McLaren was pretty fleet. Then again, if Max had taken the lead, he might have had enough "ommph" to pull awa. Bottas as well, if he had been at the front.

Hats off to Norris, who has been one of my favorite drivers to watch this year. And while he out performed Riccardo for most of the year, something has switched on with Daniel since the summer break. Lando's time will come. Good to see McLaren rounding back into form.
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