Some thoughts on strings..

[Wrighty]

Hi all

I have to admit to being someone who likes experiencing different strings, particularly in a search for the right few sets for a new guitar.

On my steel strings, after much trying, I found myself leaning towards two different types of string. I either used the Newtone Masterclass strings, which offered a warm and slightly softer sound or the Ernie Ball AB's, which offered a louder, brighter and more articulate sound. I tended to move from one to the other and preferred one or the other for certain pieces or styles.

Now I live in the classical world more, I am finding a similar situation emerging. I love the soft and warm sound that certain nylon sets offer up - I love the tone that is produced by lower tension "gut" style trebles such as Aquila nylgut (Rob MacKillop is a good example - apologies if you have not come across him) Romantic music or Sor/Carcassi Etudes etc seems to benefit.

I also love the brighter tones that some of the sets such as Savarez Cantiga with a carbon G, or the Aquila Rubino for example. The articulation and brightness gives my playing an energy I enjoy. There are some sets however that go too far such as Hannabach Goldin that I found too much of everything.

Ideally I think I would like to find some strings that, at least to an extent, tick both boxes - warm and legato sounding but with articulation and clarity.

Next on the list to try is a few more of the Aquila sets (I love their innovation) and also some Royal Classic (Sonata/Sonata light and Recital)

I would love to hear your thoughts if anybody finds themselves having similar thoughts on the stye of strings they are looking for.

[SprintBob]

Peter,

While I don’t play a nylon string, I had a Cordoba crossover a few years ago and I found I really liked the John Pearse-Thomastik Infeld collaboration on classical strings to be a set that gave you a brighter top end while retaining much of the nylon string tonal character.

The strings are marketed by JP and the part number is JP-THO. Check them out.

Good luck in your search.

Cheers,

Bob

[Bax Burgess]

I also have tried Thomastiks (KR116) on a Cordoba crossover, and they remain on it. The sound is a step more energized than the common selection of classical strings, and the tension is little to no different. The wound strings are ground smooth, so no finger squeeks. They only cost an arm and a toe, here in the states.

[Gitfiddlemann]

Originally Posted by Wrighty

Ideally I think I would like to find some strings that, at least to an extent, tick both boxes - warm and legato sounding but with articulation and clarity.

Hi Peter,
Welcome to the club!
It's good to hear that you like experimentation, because that's what you will likely need to do to find something that hits your above goal exactly, or is a close enough approximation.
Some thoughts:
String choice is a very personal and subjective matter. Even if both our tonal goals are the same, what works for me may not at all for you, and vice-versa. So, recommendations are fine, but ultimately you are the best and sole arbiter of what works for you. You really can't go by what others say. I mean, you can to a certain extent, but stay open to the possibility that one person's take on warmth may not match yours at all.
I will add though that I totally agree with you on the Hannabach Goldins. I've never found a complete set that I liked. High quality yes, but very bright and noisy, and not much warmth, at least in the basses. The Hannabach clear nylon trebles are much better. (Hannabach 900/200 M/HT has excellent trebles).

Which brings me to my next point:
Steel strings can usually be bought in sets, and that's the end of it. Nylon strings are much more varied in their style and texture. I've never been able to find a set in which both the basses and trebles fully met my expectations. Some of them were pretty good, but not as good as matching up bass and treble sets, often from different brands and manufacturers. That's why I currently go with Savarez basses and D'Addario trebles. But I'm always open for changes, although it's likely to be in the basses that I'll experiment.

I wouldn't worry so much about string tensions. Most classical guitars are designed to handle all tensions you'll find. There is no standardization of tension numbers in the industry anyway, and the difference in tension between the highest and lowest classical sets of any brand on the market are really quite small.

From what I've heard you play, and from your descriptions of what you like, I would think that you might also be served best by what I also tend to like in strings, i.e. a more traditional design. Trebles are easy for me. The conventional clear nylon ones are hard to beat for both projection, articulation and warmth. And they are often the least expensive.
I find the “carbon” type trebles to be much thinner and more slippery than clear nylon, and not as generous in terms of warmth. They also require extra twists when mounting on the bridge to ensure they don’t unravel when pulling up to tension. But, they might be the preferred choice by many, and also yourself. It's just my opinion that they aren't as well suited for classical as the conventional ones.
Also, any "wound" trebles of any kind is a no go for classical imo. Savarez popularized that many moons ago, but I don't know of any classical player that uses them.
Bass sets are also diverse in designs. I tend to seek the least noisy ones with the best tone. Savarez Corum is good, but there might be something even better out there.
Lastly, the AGF sponsor Strings-By-Mail is an excellent resource for inquiries. They can likely suggest at least something in the ballpark for you (American colloquialism ) or help you narrow your experimentation choices based on your tonal goals.
As I said though, these are my views on strings. You might end up with a totally different opinion, but, we will both be right!

[Carey]

Given what you've written, you might consider the Aquila Ambra 2000 w/ Rayon-core basses, or the Perla set w/ 'Bionylon' trebles. The Ambras have
a sound that I like essentially better than what I use, but some things
(intonation, a slight lack of malleability to the sound) that didn't suit me
at the time. In my experience Aquila tensions tend to run high relative to
other brands. The Ambra 'low-tension' trebles feel tenser than D'Add EJ45
'normal' tension, as one example.

For carbons, I think Knobloch Actives CX are clearly my favorites, and I use
their third string for my hybrid set that I've pretty much settled on :


D'Addario EJ45 nylon 1,2,4,5
Knobloch carbon CX medium 3
EJ43 low 6th (or sometimes Savarez 520b)


Adding: Augustine makes some nice, warm nylon strings that might fit your bill, too. The intonation issues that were once common in their trebles seem
to be essentially gone. Their labeling is confusingly opaque, but tensions
are:

Bass, lowest to highest: Black- Red- Blue.
Trebles, lowest to highest: Classic- Imperial- Regal

I like the Black/Classic set, FWTW, but tend to prefer lower tensions as a rule.

[Wrighty]

Originally Posted by SprintBob

Peter,



While I don’t play a nylon string, I had a Cordoba crossover a few years ago and I found I really liked the John Pearse-Thomastik Infeld collaboration on classical strings to be a set that gave you a brighter top end while retaining much of the nylon string tonal character.



The strings are marketed by JP and the part number is JP-THO. Check them out.



Good luck in your search.



Cheers,



Bob

Thanks Bob, hadn’t thought of those.

[Wrighty]

Originally Posted by AndreF

Hi Peter,

Welcome to the club!

It's good to hear that you like experimentation, because that's what you will likely need to do to find something that hits your above goal exactly, or is a close enough approximation.

Some thoughts:

String choice is a very personal and subjective matter. Even if both our tonal goals are the same, what works for me may not at all for you, and vice-versa. So, recommendations are fine, but ultimately you are the best and sole arbiter of what works for you. You really can't go by what others say. I mean, you can to a certain extent, but stay open to the possibility that one person's take on warmth may not match yours at all.

I will add though that I totally agree with you on the Hannabach Goldins. I've never found a complete set that I liked. High quality yes, but very bright and noisy, and not much warmth, at least in the basses. The Hannabach clear nylon trebles are much better. (Hannabach 900/200 M/HT has excellent trebles).



Which brings me to my next point:

Steel strings can usually be bought in sets, and that's the end of it. Nylon strings are much more varied in their style and texture. I've never been able to find a set in which both the basses and trebles fully met my expectations. Some of them were pretty good, but not as good as matching up bass and treble sets, often from different brands and manufacturers. That's why I currently go with Savarez basses and D'Addario trebles. But I'm always open for changes, although it's likely to be in the basses that I'll experiment.



I wouldn't worry so much about string tensions. Most classical guitars are designed to handle all tensions you'll find. There is no standardization of tension numbers in the industry anyway, and the difference in tension between the highest and lowest classical sets of any brand on the market are really quite small.



From what I've heard you play, and from your descriptions of what you like, I would think that you might also be served best by what I also tend to like in strings, i.e. a more traditional design. Trebles are easy for me. The conventional clear nylon ones are hard to beat for both projection, articulation and warmth. And they are often the least expensive.

I find the “carbon” type trebles to be much thinner and more slippery than clear nylon, and not as generous in terms of warmth. They also require extra twists when mounting on the bridge to ensure they don’t unravel when pulling up to tension. But, they might be the preferred choice by many, and also yourself. It's just my opinion that they aren't as well suited for classical as the conventional ones.

Also, any "wound" trebles of any kind is a no go for classical imo. Savarez popularized that many moons ago, but I don't know of any classical player that uses them.

Bass sets are also diverse in designs. I tend to seek the least noisy ones with the best tone. Savarez Corum is good, but there might be something even better out there.

Lastly, the AGF sponsor Strings-By-Mail is an excellent resource for inquiries. They can likely suggest at least something in the ballpark for you (American colloquialism ) or help you narrow your experimentation choices based on your tonal goals.

As I said though, these are my views on strings. You might end up with a totally different opinion, but, we will both be right!

Hi Andre

I think you are right with regards style, and that nylon is likely my preference. I do however, find that some I have tried have just been too soft and a little plastic sounding. The carbons always offer an immediate uplift in volume and clarity which can seem appealing for the first few days..

I don’t mind mix and match, although It does frustrate me that the online retailers in the UK are very limited in half set choice for some reason I can’t figure. Ordering from US or Europe doesn’t appeal. So I would love to find a full set or sets that work.

I am hopeful with Aquila and RC I might find something exciting.

[Wrighty]

Originally Posted by Carey

Given what you've written, you might consider the Aquila Ambra 2000 w/ Rayon-core basses, or the Perla set w/ 'Bionylon' trebles. The Ambras have

a sound that I like essentially better than what I use, but some things

(intonation, a slight lack of malleability to the sound) that didn't suit me

at the time. In my experience Aquila tensions tend to run high relative to

other brands. The Ambra 'low-tension' trebles feel tenser than D'Add EJ45

'normal' tension, as one example.



For carbons, I think Knobloch Actives CX are clearly my favorites, and I use

their third string for my hybrid set that I've pretty much settled on :





D'Addario EJ45 nylon 1,2,4,5

Knobloch carbon CX medium 3

EJ43 low 6th (or sometimes Savarez 520b)





Adding: Augustine makes some nice, warm nylon strings that might fit your bill, too. The intonation issues that were once common in their trebles seem

to be essentially gone. Their labeling is confusingly opaque, but tensions

are:



Bass, lowest to highest: Black- Red- Blue.

Trebles, lowest to highest: Classic- Imperial- Regal



I like the Black/Classic set, FWTW, but tend to prefer lower tensions as a rule.

Hi Carey

Thanks for the thoughts. I have tried recently to get hold of some Ambra’s but they are out of stock across the UK for some reason. I have Alabastro’s and Rubino’s to try.

Knobloch G I would like to try as they seem very well regarded.

I have some D’Addario EJ45TT on at the moment, and apart from the G I quite like them.

Augustine - I like the black basses too and have matched them with imperial trebles.

[Alytw]

I agree with pretty much everything Andre said above.

To echo his thoughts, strings are personal and very guitar specific. Like you, I’ve found carbon strings to be very intriguing...initially (if you ever sell a guitar, throw on a set of Knoblachs first). I’ve tried quite a few sets, most are really well made, have a lot of sustain and can be louder. Knoblach and Hannabach Goldin were probably the best to me. Most others are quite bright, and sometimes vibrato can be difficult (Optima for example). All this boils down to preference of course.

With the exception of the g, I much prefer the sweetness and musicality of nylon. I don’t mind the nylon g, but it can be tubby on some guitars.

I would also recommend trying the Hannabach 900/200. I really like the trebles and pair them with Savarez Cantiga basses (the Hannabach basses are fine, but are more expensive).

Ramirez might be another one to try.

Also, if you haven’t yet, check out Petermc61's posts on Delcamp. He posts a lot about strings.

Good luck with the search..

Adam

[Carey]

Alytw said:

I would also recommend trying the Hannabach 900/200. I really like the trebles and pair them with Savarez Cantiga basses (the Hannabach basses are fine, but are more expensive). <

Thirded. Hannabach nylon trebles 1 and 2 are *very* nice (slippery though, take care when tying!).

[Wrighty]

Originally Posted by Alytw

I agree with pretty much everything Andre said above.

To echo his thoughts, strings are personal and very guitar specific. Like you, I’ve found carbon strings to be very intriguing...initially (if you ever sell a guitar, throw on a set of Knoblachs first). I’ve tried quite a few sets, most are really well made, have a lot of sustain and can be louder. Knoblach and Hannabach Goldin were probably the best to me. Most others are quite bright, and sometimes vibrato can be difficult (Optima for example). All this boils down to preference of course.

With the exception of the g, I much prefer the sweetness and musicality of nylon. I don’t mind the nylon g, but it can be tubby on some guitars.

I would also recommend trying the Hannabach 900/200. I really like the trebles and pair them with Savarez Cantiga basses (the Hannabach basses are fine, but are more expensive).

Ramirez might be another one to try.

Also, if you haven’t yet, check out Petermc61's posts on Delcamp. He posts a lot about strings.

Good luck with the search..

Adam

Thanks Adam, I appreciate your thoughts.

I would definitely like to try the Hannabach 900/200 - they seem to be available only in full sets here in the UK but will give them a go.

I have been reading Peter's posts on Delcamp, which are very useful.

[Wrighty]

So, by way of an update, I put the Rubino’s on yesterday in order to get a meaningful comparison with the D’Addario TT set. Once I got over the rather odd red colour I found that these are really nice strings. They settled faster and were a lot more stable earlier than the D’Addaro’s and were also quieter in terms of string noise. The feel of the trebles is more satin than slippery, which I like. Tonally they are a sweeter sounding string and are well balanced between the trebles (the size differential is also smaller by design) They are articulate but sound more nylon like than carbon (they are nylon with some metal additive I understand)

Tension feels a bit stiffer than the D’Addario medium set at this stage.

Basses don’t jump out at me, but feel slightly more fundamental.

I’m keen to see how these pan put as they settle, but early signs are they are a nice string set on this guitar but may be a little too bright given my target sound.

[redir]

I've used D'Addario almost exclusively for many many years but recently started using the Aquilla Nylgut strings. String choice is very personal and they don't necessarily work well on all guitars. Some guitars like some strings while others don't.

[Wrighty]

Just by way of an update. I liked the Rubino's but they are certainly a string on the brighter end of the spectrum and the tension felt on the hard side under my fingers.

I have now had the Alabastro (normal) on for a few days - these are much more like the sound I have been searching for. They are softer and warmer but with more articulation than standard nylon in the trebles. They feel well balanced, and the G is not tubby sounding to my ears. Basses are slightly more fundamental sounding but not overpowering.

So far, the best I have tried. I would love to try Ambra when they become available again here in UK.

[xzy]

You sound a lot like me. I've tried almost every string combination out there, and I like normal Alabastro too.

I made the switch to gut and I'm never going back but I don't use nails, and I'm a few whole steps down....actually Bb, F, Bb, D, F, Bb...which I absolutely love. If you only play in standard 440A with nails gut might not work so well, but give it a try you might love it !

I use Pyramid gut bases and Gamut trebles, but not their normal trebles for classical guitars because I'm in a low tuning. The bases are absolutely perfect though just the right amount of deep fundamental and overtones.

My instrument just sings in a way it never did before. It's totally addicting and mesmerizing.