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Old 02-23-2021, 04:40 AM
JonPR JonPR is offline
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Default Ramirez second-hand

Currently contemplating replacing my cheap old nylon-string with something classier (I deserve it ), and am thinking Ramirez, possibly Cordoba.

Obviously I'm looking on ebay - no opportunity to try these things out atm - and the price ranges are astonishing (I mean down to amazingly, suspiciously cheap).
I realise choice is down to personal taste, I'm just looking for any more background info on the following models, as sellers either don't provide it or don't know. I'm in UK, btw.

Ramirez 1975. Label has the address Concepcion Jeronima no.2, but no model number. There are two of this same model currently for sale, £1100 and £1200 (this is top of my budget).

Ramirez R1, 1997, £700 (maybe 750-800 with delivery). good condition. This is currently top of my list - assuming it's comparable in quality to the above two - but I'm intrigued by the next two:

Ramirez 1E, 1988, £155 - poor cosmetic condition - clearly a carelessly treated guitar, but the damage looks superficial.

Ramirez, no model number or date; the label is a blue circular one, "para rondalla" address Concepcion Jeronima no.5 (not 2). Looks antique, probably cheap originally, looks like a flamenco model. Current top bid £70!

Cordoba C5-CE, £170. very good condition

Obviously I can afford more than these tempting low prices, the question is whether it's worth it.
I should say I'm not currently in any rush to buy. I can wait for a suitable bargain to turn up if I know better what to look for.
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Old 02-23-2021, 05:10 AM
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Jon

I have been looking at a few of these guitars recently myself - I am not able to comment except to say that there is a lot of info on Ramirez guitars/models over on Delcamp forum if you care to look through it.

The 1E is a fairly low end model as I understand it.

The two 1975 models are "Estudio" so not made by Ramirez but under licence - pretty good guitars however I think.

Good luck, it's an interesting hunt.
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Old 02-23-2021, 05:53 AM
JonPR JonPR is offline
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Jon

I have been looking at a few of these guitars recently myself - I am not able to comment except to say that there is a lot of info on Ramirez guitars/models over on Delcamp forum if you care to look through it.

The 1E is a fairly low end model as I understand it.

The two 1975 models are "Estudio" so not made by Ramirez but under licence - pretty good guitars however I think.

Good luck, it's an interesting hunt.
Thanks! I posted already on delcamp, zero response so far, but I was only asking about the 1e.
I did check through a few posts on ramirez, but a search for Ramirez R1 (currently the most appealing of my list) got no results.
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Old 02-23-2021, 08:04 AM
AndreF AndreF is offline
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Thanks! I posted already on delcamp, zero response so far, but I was only asking about the 1e.
I did check through a few posts on ramirez, but a search for Ramirez R1 (currently the most appealing of my list) got no results.
Here are some discussions on the R1:
Ramirez R1 on Delcamp
Don't know if it helps you at all. Wish I knew more about these models.
You might want to also consider Yamaha classicals in your search just as a suggestion. They make great value guitars in your budget range. I've never owned one, but I've played a few and was always impressed with their tone and playability.
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Old 02-23-2021, 08:54 AM
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Thanks, I did find that thread after my last post. Very useful, and in general I'm beginning to think about raising my budget.
It's going to be for home use and teaching, almost entirely, but I would like a really nice sounding guitar, and I do have some more spare cash....
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Old 02-23-2021, 09:14 AM
charles Tauber charles Tauber is online now
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One of the things to watch out for in an older Ramirez is that it needs a neck reset. It isnít all that common, but quite expensive to fix. One possible reason for a Ramirez being sold at a low price could be that.

Also, if you plan to play it with a lower action, make sure there is enough saddle to reduce the string height. Classical players often have pretty high actions on them, possibly higher than you want, which you might want to lower.
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Old 02-23-2021, 05:47 PM
Rapido Eduwardo Rapido Eduwardo is offline
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I bought a Ramirez 1A in 1977 new for $1600 (US Dollars). I still have it and have had no problems at all with it and play it every couple of days. It is a wonderful guitar.
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Old 02-26-2021, 05:38 PM
Gtrfinger Gtrfinger is offline
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I bought my girlfriend a Ramirez Concepcion Jeronima last year, it dates from the early 70s. I picked it up very very cheaply from a friend.
It sounds absolutely amazing with Savarez Alliance Cantiga strings. I use it on this piece...
Think you might be able to get it for less than £1000.

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Old 02-27-2021, 01:35 PM
JonPR JonPR is offline
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Things have moved on! Now I'm trying to decide between:

Ramirez 1975 Estudio
Ramirez 2006 2E

Both more or less the same price (£1000 give or take). I'm leaning towards the second because it seems like a more known quantity (had some details from the seller, including action etc).
I realise neither of them are exactly bargains at that price, but neither do they seem over-priced, compared to what else I've seen. Both are good condition as far as can be ascertained.
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Old 02-27-2021, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonPR View Post
Things have moved on! Now I'm trying to decide between:

Ramirez 1975 Estudio
Ramirez 2006 2E

Both more or less the same price (£1000 give or take). I'm leaning towards the second because it seems like a more known quantity (had some details from the seller, including action etc).
I realise neither of them are exactly bargains at that price, but neither do they seem over-priced, compared to what else I've seen. Both are good condition as far as can be ascertained.


Tough call, good luck.

Iím looking forward to hearing what you decide on.
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Old 02-28-2021, 03:49 AM
JonPR JonPR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrighty View Post
Tough call, good luck.

I’m looking forward to hearing what you decide on.
Thanks.

I presume you're saying that - to your knowledge - those models are likely to be roughly equal in quality and value?

It's frustrating that Ramirez's own site says so little about the history of its range and various models. You can drown in that sort of info on Gibson and Fender!
I've been compiling a list myself based on all the numbers, letters and dates I can find online, and it's bewildering - they change the model numbers frequently (presumably with minimal changes in design), and I'm clearly only scratching the surface.

I only have the reputation to go for anyway, and plenty of people are saying how good Cordoba are for similar prices. It's hard to tell differences in sound from youtube demos!

But yes I'll let you know when I make my decision! Or maybe that should be if....
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Old 02-28-2021, 04:37 AM
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Default Ramirez second-hand

Honestly, I donít know. Like you I have been researching and in particular on the Estudio models. From what I can see there have been two types - one made in the Ramirez workshop (Guitarreas de Estudio) and one that was outsourced (Guitarra de Estudio) that is less revered but still considered decent.

Most of those I have seen advertised are the latter, and appear to go for around £1k for a mid 70ís model.

I was looking at one with a different headstock design - so many variations!

Iím intrigued by it all..
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Old 02-28-2021, 06:49 AM
charles Tauber charles Tauber is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonPR View Post
I should say I'm not currently in any rush to buy.
You don't say what your intended purpose is for the guitar. Do you want to play classical music on it using classical technique, for example, or jazz, or ...? Do you have a particular sort of sound in mind?

About two years ago, in preparation for a new guitar build, a friend and I went to the best music store in our greater geographical region. We played classical guitars that ranged in price from $1k to $14k. They were by many different makers, some famous, some not, some were new, some were old. Their was no obvious correlation between any factor and the sound of the instruments. The highest price didn't give the best sound, the name of the maker didn't correlate with sound, old or new didn't correlate with best sound. There is VAST difference between them, regardless of price, age or maker.

My recommendation, particularly with classical guitars, is - if you have something specific in mind sound-wise - don't buy sight-un-seen. If you can wait, wait until you can go try a bunch a base your decision of experience of them, rather than spec sheets or on-line videos.
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Old 02-28-2021, 08:50 AM
JonPR JonPR is offline
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Originally Posted by charles Tauber View Post
You don't say what your intended purpose is for the guitar. Do you want to play classical music on it using classical technique, for example, or jazz, or ...? Do you have a particular sort of sound in mind?
Mostly playing and teaching classical pieces, using classical technique.
I mainly play other styles of music (blues, folk, rock, jazz) but have the guitars I need for those styles (not top range, but what I considered very good quality).
Currently, for classical guitar, I use a very ancient - and very cheap (and poorly intonated) - nylon-string, which is a little embarrassing in lessons. I also have an old Aria crossover electro-acoustic nylon-string, which is better made (good intonation etc), but has a small, shallow body - so the acoustic tone is not great.
Mainly I want a nice-sounding guitar, for my personal use! It's not for live performance - certainly not in concert halls. I will probably use it for recording at some point - but again, not professionally.
Quote:
Originally Posted by charles Tauber View Post
About two years ago, in preparation for a new guitar build, a friend and I went to the best music store in our greater geographical region. We played classical guitars that ranged in price from $1k to $14k. They were by many different makers, some famous, some not, some were new, some were old. Their was no obvious correlation between any factor and the sound of the instruments. The highest price didn't give the best sound, the name of the maker didn't correlate with sound, old or new didn't correlate with best sound. There is VAST difference between them, regardless of price, age or maker.

My recommendation, particularly with classical guitars, is - if you have something specific in mind sound-wise - don't buy sight-un-seen. If you can wait, wait until you can go try a bunch a base your decision of experience of them, rather than spec sheets or on-line videos.
Thanks Charles, that's very sensible advice - and would be my usual practice in normal circumstances.

I suppose I'm just somewhat impatient, especially as most of my lessons now seem to be on nylon-string (although not all classical). The lessons are all currently on Zoom, of course, so sound quality is not really an issue there. But I've been playing for over 50 years on the rubbish nylon-string, and I feel it's well past time that I upgraded to something sensible and mature. With my other guitars, I've bought similar upgrades in the past, and always kicked myself for not doing it sooner.

I'm getting drawn into the "unbeatable bargain, now!" thing, when clearly when one bargain goes, another will turn up sooner or later... But I am more interested in second-hand instruments than new ones, which is one reason I'm surfing ebay. My current steel-string acoustic, a beautiful guitar, was a real bargain on ebay (well before lockdown) - half the price I nearly paid a friend for a similar model.

It's just now occurred to me (I don't know why it didn't before) that the lockdown - and the closure of music shops which was going on even before that - means it's a private sellers' market at the moment. Prices may well be unnaturally inflated.
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Last edited by JonPR; 02-28-2021 at 08:55 AM.
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Old 02-28-2021, 10:15 AM
charles Tauber charles Tauber is online now
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It does sound like it's well past time to upgrade.

I can understand being impatient and wanting to buy now. In the absence of being able to personally inspect and play an individual instrument, there isn't a lot of objective criteria to use to distinguish between one instrument and another. It then becomes mostly a crapshoot.
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