Suggestions for new sound system

[guitarwebguy]

I’d appreciate everyone’s suggestions and recommendations for buying a new sound system. Max price limit is $1200. We are a 3 piece acoustic group and all 3 of us sing. Instruments include 12 string banjo, standup bass, tenor guitar, 6 string guitar, mandolin, and 12 string guitar. Cords, mics, and stands we have. Open to digital or analog. Must include at least one monitor. Reverb would be a plus. Most of the time we play events with less than 60 people. Great sound and easy to move is important as we are are older. Thanks in advance.

[YamahaGuy]

A line array, with its 180 degree sound dispersion may alleviate the need for a monitor. Having an upright bass, I'd say go for some kind of sub -- larger than the 6.5" one in the Bose L1C. As many inputs as you need, you'll want a 12 channel mixer (at least), maybe even 16 channel. The mixer alone is going to be like $400. This is a tough one.

How about this: 1 member buy the mixer, 1 member (the bass player probably) buy the sub and a monitor, and the other member buy the FOH speakers and stands. Something like the items below

Mixer
https://www.guitarcenter.com/Yamaha/...038.gc?rNtt=12 channel mixer&index=2

Sub
https://www.guitarcenter.com/Kustom-...c?rNtt=powered subwoofers&index=52
Monitor
https://www.guitarcenter.com/Kustom-...0.gc?rNtt=Dual 10 monitor&index=1

FOH
X2. https://www.guitarcenter.com/Kustom-...c?rNtt=powered speakers&index=38

[Petty1818]

For what you need $1200 is a stretch. If I can make a suggestion and this is from my own experiences, don't settle for a complete system that meets your budget now. Get the best of what you can get and add on later. Personally, I would take out the monitor for now, especially for the small venues you are playing (I am basing it on the 60 person audience that you mentioned). Small shows like that won't be as difficult to hear your singing and instruments so you can get away with that for now.

I too play in a similar band (celtic group) but we do anywhere from 70 people to 500 people). If I am using my own system, I usually just bring two QSC K12's, two K10's for monitors and a QSC TM16. If the show is closer to 500 then we usually have a sound man. I know the sub was recommended but we don't even use one. My bass player has an amp that he uses as a stage monitor + it projects well and we also patch it into the board. The QSC K12's handle that type of bass perfectly. The problem with a sub is that if you are going to add one, you really need a 15" or 18" speaker. I know the Bose systems have an integrated sub but that's not the same thing. Once you get into the bigger speakers though, you are looking at 70-90lbs. That's why I have never added a sub. Everytime I consider one, I get told by sound professionals and music stores that I really need an 18" and I can't justify lugging that around.

A similar set up to what I use would be good for you but you could save a bit by looking around. For example, if you wanted to stay in that budget right now, you could get a single QSC CP12, a CP8 for a monitor and then one of the more affordable $400 mixers from Mackie, Allen & Heath or Yamaha. My recommendation though would be to get two CP12's, a nice analog mixer in the $400 range and then add a CP8 at a later date for a monitor. I would also encourage your bass player to get a bass amp.

[Chipotle]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

If I am using my own system, I usually just bring two QSC K12's, two K10's for monitors and a QSC TM16.

I run a similar sytem, except saved a bit by using K10s as mains and a CP8 for the lone monitor, and a Behringer XR18 for the mixer. But that rig new will run you $2400. As Petty1818 says, it'll be a stretch to get main, monitor and mixer under $1200 unless you get a good used deal.

As for the mixer, if all your instruments are plugged in at the same time, even if you leave out the bass you have a minimum of 8 actual channel strips needed. That puts you into analog mixers in the $500ish range right there, plus a pretty large footprint. Something like the XR18 ($600) is small, light, plenty of spare inputs, 6 aux outs for more monitors later, and you can mix from a tablet mounted right in front of you on the mic stand (or wirelessly by your sound guy out in the house). Super capable and flexible if you are okay going the digital route.

[leew3]

FWIW I'm with the posters who advocate running the bass through an amp and possibly DI out to the system. I play bass some and my small TC Electronics combo amp has a line out that I've used in larger rooms. I prefer having the monitoring of an amp right behind me and the DI out keeps me from having to crank the volume up too much. As to the other system elements, you'll get plenty of good suggestions here. Happy Shopping!

[guitarwebguy]

Appreciate the ideas so far ... convincing the bass player to get his own amp is a possibility and we could do without monitor given the smaller groups we play for ... I’ll start hunting for a used mixer .... the QSC gear gets a lot of love so I’ll find a shop that carries them and give a listen, thanks!

[shufflebeat]

Keep an eye out for used Yamaha dxr12. Some folks will be "retiring" for the time being. The dxr range is similar spec to QSC but I think there are more of the Yams around.

I've never recommended Behringer before but for a cheap digi-desk theirs is hard to beat.

[roylor4]

Originally Posted by guitarwebguy

Appreciate the ideas so far ... convincing the bass player to get his own amp is a possibility and we could do without monitor given the smaller groups we play for ... I’ll start hunting for a used mixer .... the QSC gear gets a lot of love so I’ll find a shop that carries them and give a listen, thanks!

A pair of QSC CP8's ($399 each) and a good Soundcraft like and EFX8 ($439) mixer and you're good to go. Any decent small powered speaker would do as a monitor ($100). more like 1400-1450 w/tax but this would be more than capable of what your asking.

You could get a pair of JBL Eon 610's for $279 each right now at Sweetwater. That would keep you under your budget, They are fine speakers too, Its what we gig with.

[Br1ck]

After trashing their products for years, I've become a fan of the Behringer powered speakers we've been using as monitors. The 8"version is plenty for that. Been trying to figure a way , maybe used, for you to use QSCs, but the math doesn't work. I also like to keep bass out of the mains. I use my Carvin AG 300 for that.

[Chipotle]

Originally Posted by Br1ck

After trashing their products for years, I've become a fan of the Behringer powered speakers we've been using as monitors. The 8"version is plenty for that. Been trying to figure a way , maybe used, for you to use QSCs, but the math doesn't work. I also like to keep bass out of the mains. I use my Carvin AG 300 for that.

From what I've heard about Behringer lately, their stuff is pretty good if it doesn't include a power amp. They definitely have upped their game, and the big brother of my mixer, the XR32, is now an industry standard. It is the same guts as the similar Midas except for lower-end (but still pretty good) preamps.

[guitarwebguy]

It’s great to know there are alternatives to look at - Behringer, Yamaha, & Kustom will be added to my list of items to look at - thanks!

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Chipotle

From what I've heard about Behringer lately, their stuff is pretty good if it doesn't include a power amp. They definitely have upped their game, and the big brother of my mixer, the XR32, is now an industry standard. It is the same guts as the similar Midas except for lower-end (but still pretty good) preamps.

Hi Chipotle

I've watched Behringer for about 20 years, and they started out very similar to Kustom, and Traynor who started by building cheap products and then transformed into solid companies. Behringer is that.

Their X-32 and now Wing mixers are top shelf. The cool thing is they also have mixers with the electronic guts of the X32 with no faders. Looks like a stage box, and is run from an iPad/tablet or phone. You do need to carry your own wifi router with these, but those are pretty small. The built in wifi is not hearty enough for a lot of places/venues.

If I were building a system today, I'd choose a pair of 12 inch two way speakers, and fly them above and behind the group (eliminates the need for monitors). In fact, my gigging partner and I put together a system such as this and have used it for the past 15 years.

And a 12" two way cabinet will handle an electric bass, and a keyboard…and the tone will be more balanced and less woofy and feedback prone than 15" cabinets.

I'd likely go with powered speakers and either one of the Behringer boxes, or I'd go with a conventional board which has a power amp built in (getting hard to find these days). QSC powered 12" speakers are hard to beat.

We chose steel speaker stands as opposed to fiberglass. Heavy as all get-out but we can fly cabinets as high as 10' off the ground when in hotel banquet rooms with high ceilings. We've even flown full 15" three way cabinets that high on them (someone else's).

We can scale back to only one unit when in small rooms/venues. And we can fit the whole thing in the trunk of my wife's S2 Saturn sedan.

Just my 15 cents worth.

[Br1ck]

Never had a problem with the amp in the Behringer speakers.

We run a powered Yamaha mixer at our open mic venue, and we flew passive QSC 15 inchers from the ceiling. Can't say enough about the QSC stuff. But I've been happy with any Yamaha product I've ever bought or used.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi Chipotle

I've watched Behringer for about 20 years, and they started out very similar to Kustom, and Traynor who started by building cheap products and then transformed into solid companies. Behringer is that.

Their X-32 and now Wing mixers are top shelf. The cool thing is they also have mixers with the electronic guts of the X32 with no faders. Looks like a stage box, and is run from an iPad/tablet or phone. You do need to carry your own wifi router with these, but those are pretty small. The built in wifi is not hearty enough for a lot of places/venues.

If I were building a system today, I'd choose a pair of 12 inch two way speakers, and fly them above and behind the group (eliminates the need for monitors). In fact, my gigging partner and I put together a system such as this and have used it for the past 15 years.

And a 12" two way cabinet will handle an electric bass, and a keyboard…and the tone will be more balanced and less woofy and feedback prone than 15" cabinets.

I'd likely go with powered speakers and either one of the Behringer boxes, or I'd go with a conventional board which has a power amp built in (getting hard to find these days). QSC powered 12" speakers are hard to beat.

We chose steel speaker stands as opposed to fiberglass. Heavy as all get-out but we can fly cabinets as high as 10' off the ground when in hotel banquet rooms with high ceilings. We've even flown full 15" three way cabinets that high on them (someone else's).

We can scale back to only one unit when in small rooms/venues. And we can fit the whole thing in the trunk of my wife's S2 Saturn sedan.

Just my 15 cents worth.

Traynor made cheap products? Here in Canada, Traynor/Yorkville is a very respected brand. I had always heard that the early Traynor stuff was even more top shelf than what they make now. Of course you may be referring to their acoustic amp line, which admittedly I don't know a ton about.

[phcorrigan]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

I'd likely go with powered speakers and either one of the Behringer boxes...

I use a Behringer XR18 digital mixer with a couple of Behringer 8" powered speakers. One big advantage of the XR18 is that you can record eighteen tracks via USB. I also have a 10" EON monitor wedge.

I use the 8" speakers because that's what I could afford when I found them on Craigslist, otherwise I might have gone with 10" or 12". With the bass you may want to have a subwoofer.

As someone else suggested, you might want to run the bass through its own amp, and DI out to the mixer.