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  #1  
Old 05-10-2019, 08:50 PM
jonfields45 jonfields45 is offline
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Default Bose S1, Fishman Loudbox Mini Charge ALTERNATIVE

A good first step is to figure out how much power the equipment you own requires to run. My CP8 is roughly 7 watts producing no sound (running its DSP and CPU). My Mixer is 10 watts. Thus picture 3 which is how to get away with no mixer and still handle two guitars and two mics for my duo (XLR Y-cable, and 3.5 mm TRS to dual 1/4" TS female).



Blasting Steely Dan as loud as I think we've ever used our PA is only 10 watts (on the order of pushing a 25 watt RMS system to the limit of no distortion, or 2.5 watts continuous):



This is an easy lift for the 166 watt-hour Beaudens portable power supply. It shows 5 of 5 bars remaining power after two hours of Steely Dan:



Inexpensive power meter:
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The Beaudens appealed to me because of the more robust Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries it uses. As you can see it is compact. It is has an MSW inverter which works fine for my equipment. As an EE, I don't see why an MSW inverter should be a problem with professional audio equipment, but nothing beats trying it to make sure. Given the trade off of reasonable price, more robust battery chemistry, capacity, and PSW/MSW, this seemed a good choice to me.

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Beaudens suggests assuming no more than 80% of the total capacity for any application (or 130 watt-hours). Divide that by the run time you need to determine how many watts it can deliver. Then ignore all the specs for your equipment and measure it running a realistic load. Even blasting my CP8 to to the threshold of pain was only 12.5 watts continuous.
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Last edited by jonfields45; 05-20-2019 at 07:26 AM.
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  #2  
Old 05-10-2019, 10:46 PM
Beakybird Beakybird is offline
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That's a great price for what looks like an amazing product!
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  #3  
Old 05-10-2019, 11:40 PM
Cuki79 Cuki79 is offline
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Great JonFields

Thanks!

Please report when you will have gig with it.
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Old 05-11-2019, 12:40 AM
Cuki79 Cuki79 is offline
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This one looks nice too. Pure sine wave.

https://the-gadgeteer.com/2017/01/31...supply-review/

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Old 05-11-2019, 05:53 AM
JakeStone JakeStone is offline
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Great info ! Thanks for sharing.
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Old 05-12-2019, 01:06 AM
Per Burström Per Burström is offline
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Thanks for your very informative and thorough post Jon!

The CP8 seems great and with excellent reviews, but for a portable solution it will of course "play in a different" league compared to the Bose S1 Pro as it will be almost twice the weight with the battery pack. It would have to be for example an Alto TX208 to land at the same weight. Anyone who can comment on how the TX208 compare to the S1 Pro?

/Per
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Old 05-12-2019, 05:18 AM
jonfields45 jonfields45 is offline
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No experience with that particular Alto, but I did buy the equivalent Gemini and it sounded pretty bad compared to my CP8. It's frequency response was not flat. It could be pushed into distortion at volume levels that were not painful (the power spec was clearly BS even in a product segment were marketing trumps any sort of technical fact). However because it was a class A-B design, at reasonable volume levels it only consumed about 5 watts total (no DSP and CPU required to run it). If you step up to the Behringer B208D I think you do get a pretty decent sounding speaker. I gigged with two of those for a few years before I started using a single speaker high and behind.

I imagine many people don't realize that Class-D is not more efficient compared to class A-B when no music is playing or the system is operating near its peak (undistorted or distorted) power. It is a great technology for thumping hip-hop which is not exactly the acoustic scene. A properly sized A-B product might be a better choice for battery powered acoustic gigs (most acoustic guitar amps).

My real point in this thread is before you buy a specialized amp with an internal battery you should consider the gear you already own and know how to get a good sound out of.

In particular I think the Bose S1 is expensive. It was designed to stretch the battery life and reduce weight in ways that might be fine for many, but would never be found in a pro audio powered speaker.
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Last edited by jonfields45; 05-12-2019 at 05:30 AM.
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  #8  
Old 05-12-2019, 03:22 PM
Kabi Kabi is offline
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Thank you Jon, really useful information. The idea of a compact speaker with an external power-bank it's quite interesting.
A friend who is working with audio services told me to consider also the dB Technologies B-Hype 8 one of the best among the very cheap and light compact 8" speakers.. it's just few euros more than the Alto and Behringer and same weight.
In this case any advice for a very small light mixer to match with the 8" speaker?
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Old 05-12-2019, 06:50 PM
Pine Cone Pine Cone is offline
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Very interesting, especially since I already own the QSC CP8. This looks like a reasonable way to Get off the grid while leveraging gear I already have. Thanks for posting this!
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Old 05-20-2019, 06:33 AM
jonfields45 jonfields45 is offline
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We played a two set gig last night (about 110 minutes of music) for about 50 people at conversation friendly volume in an open sided pavilion with the threat of thunderstorms. The before picture of the Beaudens might as well been the after too with 5 out of 5 bars showing. There would have been no problem powering a mixer too, but it would be one more piece of gear to stow if rain and wind struck. We both felt at the end of the gig that maybe we don't really need a mixer as we did not miss reverb and don't use the tone controls anyway. When I switch that guitar to an HFN I will need the mixer's tone controls or need to bring another pedal (GE7). My duo partner wanted to set up sitting on a picnic table which I would not do again...

I find it interesting that at acoustic performance volumes most of the power went to the class-D switching/DSP/CPU overhead. I think a larger act with two speakers, monitors and a mixer might be able to get away with the same battery (for reference it is that small box on the table in front of the speaker stand). At these volume levels older A-B amps are probably better choices for battery power.

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IR Demo, read the description too: https://youtu.be/SELEE4yugjE
My duo's website and my email... [email protected]

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Last edited by jonfields45; 05-20-2019 at 07:28 AM.
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  #11  
Old 05-21-2019, 08:44 PM
Pine Cone Pine Cone is offline
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Thanks for the gig update. Nice to hear it works in the real world!

I got my Beaudens B-1502 today and am quite pleased with it.

I built some similar units in the last few years for off-grid solar powered camping, one with a deep cycle car battery, and a couple with lead-acid gel cells. Like the Beaudens unit they had USB outputs, 12VDC, and with an inverter 120VAC.

The Beaudens is so much smaller and lighter than what I built. I tried it with my QSC CP-8 and it works great.

I also tried it with my Kustom PA-50, which uses about twice the watts of the QSC CP8 at similar volumes. The QSC sounds better as well. I am impressed with how efficient the QSC is. The Kustom has much lower output, rated at 50 watts RMS, so it is only appropriate for smaller rooms, while the QSC CP8 is rated at 1000 watts peak, so maybe 500 watts RMS, 10x the Kustom.

In one of the earlier posts someone compared the weight of the Bose S1 versus the combined weight of the QSC/Beaudens combo, but failed to recognise that the QSC is probably 5-10 times the output of the Bose.

Thanks for letting me know about the Beaudens! Pretty awesome for the price and weight.
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Old 05-22-2019, 12:59 AM
Per Burström Per Burström is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pine Cone View Post
In one of the earlier posts someone compared the weight of the Bose S1 versus the combined weight of the QSC/Beaudens combo, but failed to recognise that the QSC is probably 5-10 times the output of the Bose.
That was me, but I do realise the superior power you will get with the CP4. My point was that if you are a busker or traveling musician considering the S1 Pro your "weight budget" is probably lower than what the CP4 + battery lands on.

Cheers,
Per
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Old 05-22-2019, 09:19 AM
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Thanks for your very insightful and useful post!!!

Gabe
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Old 05-22-2019, 09:25 AM
bsman bsman is offline
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Hmm. I've been seriously considering selling my Fishman Loudbox Performer and getting a Loudbox Charge, but that power supply at about $160 might be a very useful alternative! While my Fishman is rated at 180 watts output, I've never come close to diming it, and the additional capability of using the power supply to run other equipment as needed is pretty spiffy!
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Old 05-22-2019, 09:36 AM
zhunter zhunter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Per Burström View Post
That was me, but I do realise the superior power you will get with the CP8 [corrected]. My point was that if you are a busker or traveling musician considering the S1 Pro your "weight budget" is probably lower than what the CP8 + battery lands on.

Cheers,
Per
A few years back when I was seeing situations where I needed battery power, this was exactly the concern. Hopping on the bus to get to a street venue made bringing a home assembled battery and inverter setup pretty out of the question. Not to mention my available PA speaker was a K10 which is a much tougher carry for mass transit travel. I made a choice for a Cube Street EX for an all in one amp system that was a great carry and more than got the job done if not super hi fi.

The technology of both battery/inverter packs and minimizing PA speaker size and weight has made pretty good leaps in 5 years or so. Today I might look harder at a battery/inverter pack combined with my CP8 as a solution. A little heavier but much more speaker and since I already have a CP8 I would be money ahead. And the inverter battery package is much more lightweight and compact and user friendly. My no external power needs have basically gone away and I see no need for a battery rig if power is available. I still drag the Roland out on the porch for a little noise making but it is way more than needed for such use. But if you need it, the battery powered options are getting much better.

I did find out my Schertler did not like modified sine wave power so to take full advantage I would need a pure sine wave inverter. But those are getting more affordable and available too.

What a difference 5 years makes.

hunter
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