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  #16  
Old 04-29-2019, 09:09 PM
steelvibe steelvibe is offline
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Originally Posted by Rev Roy View Post
What I have often seen are people posting used guitars for sale at ridiculously high prices...typically more than you would pay to get the same guitar new from one of our sponsor. Those are the guitars that sit unsold for a long time...
I used to have a neighbor who was an avid garage sale guy- he would use his garage to store his goods and have multiple sales a Summer. Him and his wife always did pretty well.

Well I decided to have my first garage sale ever and was an avid BMX street bike enthusiast. I was asking way too much for a bike that had more sentimental value to me than what it was worth, but it just sat around and wasn't being used. He walked by my sign and said, "You really don't want to sell that bike do you?".

That is when I first realized that sometimes you just have to let something go. You either want to make a little money or no money at all.
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  #17  
Old 04-29-2019, 09:24 PM
The Growler The Growler is offline
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Sometimes I think that some sellers value their sentimental attachment more than buyers do.

I think this whenever I see a couple year old used guitar being listed for more than I bought mine new. That said, part of it could be the annual price increases we keep seeing may be driving some of this.
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  #18  
Old 04-30-2019, 05:21 AM
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When I sell a guitar I start low and let it go. Usually it's only a discount of $100 or $200 on a quality guitar. Think about it going to a regular sit down restaurant is easily $35 for two of us. A decent restaurant with a drink or two and your looking at a$100 bill. But that's just me.
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  #19  
Old 04-30-2019, 07:54 AM
beninma beninma is offline
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Lots of people overvalue their used items... and that is not a guitar specific thing.

If your used item gets too close to the price of a new one with warranty no way I'm buying your used one. For a guitar it might have subtle issues with fretwear, or a weird setup was done. A new guitar is a clean slate.

For an acoustic guitar I would worry about the humidification history of the guitar. For most of the expensive guitars mentioned here if I was to buy a new one from the local shop I'd know that guitar had never been mishandled in it's lifetime. Can't know that with a used guitar.

The flipside... a used guitar of course could sound better than a new one due to wood aging.
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  #20  
Old 04-30-2019, 07:59 AM
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Let's look at couple of things:

1. Most folks are not "like us." I realize that the average player on a forum owns multiple guitars but the average player outside the forum isn't like us. He may own one guitar, and when he goes to buy his lifetime instrument do you think the average player is going to spend hours learning the used/vintage market? He'll probably want a new version of the guitar he's seen his hero play.

2. If a non-playing spouse wants to buy his/her spouse a lifetime instrument, do you think he/she is going to try to sort out the used/vintage market? Not likely. Now I realize that Amy Grant buys Vince Gill vintage guitars but she's a definite exception.

3. Think about how forum-dwellers like us, who love and know instruments, are depressing the used market by flooding it as we serially buy new and sell or trade used instruments.

4. What's left for the used market is a specialty group of buyers: those who don't have the money for a new guitar and those who are pursuing a particular guitar from a particular time period for some personal reason. I recently bought a used 2004 Taylor 710ce. I'd just sold a 2001 example of that model and instantly wanted one like it back. I loved the combination of East indian Rosewood and Engelmann spruce. However, because the original had a Fishman Blender barn door and I preferred to not have the door, I wanted one from the period after the Fishman electronics but still with the Engelmann spruce top. That narrowed things down. Fortunately for me, the Expression System 1.0 has a low resale value. I was able to buy a 2004 in virtually brand-new condition that had a few finish flaws for a KILLER price.

5. And remember: a used guitar is very much like a car - the instant it leaves the dealership it is worth half of its new price or less. Guitar players seem to think they live in some sort of virtue bubble where their instrument unrealistically maintains a large percent of its value because they treated it well. A cream puff's value starts at 50% and moves down from there for every. single. flaw.


Bob
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  #21  
Old 04-30-2019, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pagedr View Post
This is so accurate. It's crazy what I see some guitars listed for on Reverb, and the amount of guitars that have been sitting around for months or even years in some cases. And I'm not just talking about guitars that are maybe a couple hundred dollars too high, there are plenty that are well over a thousand dollars above what a savvy buyer would pay.
Sometimes I think people don’t really want to sell. I’d rather have a well cared for used guitar. But sometimes I think folks will say “If someone is willing to pay
This for my guitar then I will be willing to sell it.” Waste of time as most wont. I want a deal ( but not a steal) on a used guitar otherwise I won’t buy it.
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  #22  
Old 04-30-2019, 08:19 AM
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The original title of this thread "Who Is Buying All Of The New Guitars?" sums up Taylors approach to marketing. You have to be constantly coming up with something new and improved so the buyers think that they're getting the latest and greatest. All you really get is a little different, for better or worse.
Then there are new guitar buyers moving up the ladder to more expensive instruments as their playing improves.
As a previous poster said, I have no problem selling in the used market. I'm realistic as to what my guitar is worth.
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  #23  
Old 04-30-2019, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Womack View Post
Let's look at couple of things:

...

5. And remember: a used guitar is very much like a car - the instant it leaves the dealership it is worth half of its new price or less. Guitar players seem to think they live in some sort of virtue bubble where their instrument unrealistically maintains a large percent of its value because they treated it well. A cream puff's value starts at 50% and moves down from there for every. single. flaw.


Bob
I don't think you've shopped for a car with less than 12K miles lately. The drive it off the lot and lose 50% of value thing simply does not hold true in the real world. Find me a Subaru Outback or Toyota Tacoma with <12K available at 50% of new price and I will fly there right now right now

A new desirable Martin bought right (40% off MSRP) can get 90% of that new price ... this is a great reason to buy new. The huge depreciation is much more the case for small makers / single luthiers.
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  #24  
Old 04-30-2019, 08:34 AM
pszy22 pszy22 is offline
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From the front cover of this month's issue of a Music Retail trade Magazine --

"Overall guitar dollar sales enjoy a more than 5% year over year increase, with manufacturers affirming 2018 was a great year"

Actual uptick was 5.3 for 2018, 2.2 for 2017.

Perhaps it's not surprising that more new sales might mean fewer used sales. The economy is good, it's easy to understand a "why buy used when I can afford to by new" philosophy.
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  #25  
Old 04-30-2019, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev Roy View Post
...I keep seeing reports of a “soft” used guitar market. That hasn’t been my experience...at least when it comes to selling “excellent” condition high-end models from the Big Three...
This. I neither see, nor experience, anything other than a robust market for new and used guitars. The only guitars I see not selling are those that are either; overpriced, under marketed, unknown or undesired. I have bought 4 guitars this year alone and sold 3. The three sold have all been over $3,000 and one over $5,000 - two of the 3 within 24 hours.

What I do continue to see are people trying to sell without pictures (sometimes providing a link to another site), inadequate specs and/or information, sloppy photos (different than no photos), obviously poor or incorrect descriptions. Also, I won't consider a guitar that has sold 4 times in short period (3 years for example). When you tell me your guitar is the best ever and it has passed through many owners when it was made in 2018, that doesn't bode well for the guitar. Likewise, when you're selling a 2018 guitar that "has the voice of an angel" and "the best I've ever owned", I don't buy it..... or the guitar when I see 6, 8, 10 others in your signature. If it's the best you've played, keep it and sell 3 of the other lesser guitars in your signature. In other words - be honest.

There are people who continue to want "friends and family" even after we have discussed ad-nauseam the PayPal violations that it incurs (not to mention the lack of protection to the buyer). People have begun putting "net to me" on their ads which means nothing to me as a buyer.

Tell me how much you want for your guitar including shipping and all fees. I'm not going to try to figure out what - "net to you" means. You'll notice that many of the instruments that sit, and sit, incorporate one, or more of the afore mentioned "don't dos". No, the market isn't soft. It's very astute and savvy. I do have one guitar for sale that hasn't sold in 2 months. It's well-priced (to me), but it's not a Martin, Taylor, Guild, Gibson, Olson or Collings. It doesn't need to sell and it will sell in time for full asking. No panic here.

I've also seen people who have put instruments up for sale with the "fire sale" panic like "I have to sell again, and again.... the tax man commeth" and then post "trades considered" - sorry, if you need to sell then trades won't help. Then when you look at their posts, all 50 are "for sale" listings letting you know they only come around when they have 2 or 3 guitars for sale.

Very rarely there are great, well placed, well photographed guitars for sale for a great price that sit for a while. It's just the luck of the draw (and usually brands not found in stores so people don't know them well) and they too will sell. That is not an indicator of a soft market. A soft market happens when the economy downturns and discretionary spending slows or stops. That's not today.

I am ready...... asbestos-suit-250x250.jpg
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  #26  
Old 04-30-2019, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pszy22 View Post
From the front cover of this month's issue of a Music Retail trade Magazine --

"Overall guitar dollar sales enjoy a more than 5% year over year increase, with manufacturers affirming 2018 was a great year"

Actual uptick was 5.3 for 2018, 2.2 for 2017.

Perhaps it's not surprising that more new sales might mean fewer used sales. The economy is good, it's easy to understand a "why buy used when I can afford to by new" philosophy.
That’s ok with me ...more new guitars means more used guitars down the road.
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  #27  
Old 04-30-2019, 08:53 AM
brandall10 brandall10 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Womack View Post
What's left for the used market is a specialty group of buyers: those who don't have the money for a new guitar
I buy almost all guitars/amps/audiophile equipment used, and I can assure you I can easily afford everything I own new if I wanted. The amount of stuff that has come and gone through my hands over the years must be cresting 6 figures and the loss was minimal because I bought and sold used. In some cases I made a good chunk of $$ (ie. Audio Technica ATH-L3000 headphones bought in 2005 for $1500, sold in 2007 for $2200).

I'm just really getting into nicer acoustic guitars, but there seems to be tons of folks like me out there in electric guitar world going by thegearpage - there are folks who literally buy and flip an amp or two monthly chasing some tone. If you bought new it would be an untenable hobby.

I don't think the comparison to something like an automobile is valid *except* for the depreciation aspect... you lose a good 20% off the lot, but it's not something that suffers from mechanical wear and tear in nearly the same way.

The only time I buy new is when the item is too hard or rare to find at a reasonable price used. For instance, I recently picked up an OM-28 authentic for $4300 shipped.... but if you look at Reverb, most folks selling these used are right around or above what a forum sponsor sells new. Even negotiating down a few hundred less than new (ie. say $4900), it still is too much when giving up the warranty. But $900 less? Heck yeah, a warranty is not worth that much, esp. if it's non-transferable.

Last edited by brandall10; 04-30-2019 at 09:03 AM.
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  #28  
Old 04-30-2019, 08:57 AM
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{/QUOTE]A new desirable Martin bought right (40% off MSRP) can get 90% of that new price ... this is a great reason to buy new. The huge depreciation is much more the case for small makers / single luthiers.[/QUOTE]

Isn't that the same as 50% off?
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  #29  
Old 04-30-2019, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brandall10 View Post
Originally Posted by Bob Womack What's left for the used market is a specialty group of buyers: those who don't have the money for a new guitar
Quote:
Originally Posted by brandall10 View Post
I buy almost all guitars/amps/audiophile equipment used, and I can assure you I can easily afford everything I own new if I wanted...
It is important to read, and quote, the entire sentence:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Womack View Post
4. What's left for the used market is a specialty group of buyers: those who don't have the money for a new guitar and those who are pursuing a particular guitar from a particular time period for some personal reason.
All the best,

Bob
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  #30  
Old 04-30-2019, 09:22 AM
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You can’t get 0% financing on used guitars! You can on new guitars.
A year or two old used $3500 guitar costs $3500 now. The same guitar new at $4250 with a warranty costs the buyer about $120 a month for 36 months. I’d opt for new every time as I did with my last purchases.

I’ve NEVER seen so many used guitars available. If you are in the $250-$2000 market your options are unlimited. Based on the listings on Reverb, Craigslist and Facebook a large percentage are not selling. Yes, many are overpriced but after a few months even these should drop their price and sell but they’re not. This is indicative of a market with more inventory than buyers.
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