#121
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All this preamp talk has me thinking of revisiting a preamp shootout. I don't have some of the cool preamps being discussed here, but I do have a bit of variety. Worth doing and posting? Suggestions for best way to do a fair demo with guitar?
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Music: Spotify, Bandcamp Videos: You Tube Channel Books: Hymns for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), Christmas Carols for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), A DADGAD Christmas, Alternate Tunings book Online Course: Alternate Tunings for Fingerstyle Guitar |
#122
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Mono, same everything-but-the-pre, and play something with some dynamics, but simple enough that you can do it the same way over and over. A KM84 if you've got one, because they're so neutral and gain won't be an issue.
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#123
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Absent having four channels of the same preamp and/or having four of the same microphones, any comparison will have to either (i) compare mono recordings (i.e., one mic and one preamp channel per sample) using the same performance or (ii) compare two mic/two preamp channels (for stereo samples) using different performances.
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#124
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#125
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I would also like to suggest that if you do that comparison, that either you make a last entry in this post with the new posts url. OR....you continue that preamp test right here on in this current post. The Reason why? Cause we have had some of the most helpful, knowledgeable, reasonable people in this particular thread. I would hate to loose any of people who have participated in this discussion. If you do this test, My personal preference would be for you to do it with the Schoeps in Stereo & Brauner in Mono. Further, It would be important to myself to hear the difference between a Great preamp such as the Great River you have all mentioned, and a Good but inexpensive interface such as The audient ID44 by itself, Antelope Discrete 4 (or other). The objective here is to find out just how much difference there is between the Newer interfaces with their claimed higher built in preamps verses the stand alone great preamp. For selfish reasons...I am hoping that the newer interfaces can come close. I keep thinking to myself, with all of our newer tech, science, a great preamp for lesser money should be possible. With microphones, The capsule quality is limited by mechanical building and material qualities. But with preamps-interfaces I am hoping that we are closer. |
#126
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I hate mono for acoustic guitar, it makes everything sound equally bad :-) Is there a reason you prefer mono? I guess I could do it both ways. I have KM184's, but to me, those aren't very neutral - big treble boost. The Schoeps are the flattest, most neutral thing I have. But more people probably have KM184s. One easy way to do both stereo and mono would be with MS, tho that rules out the 184s
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Music: Spotify, Bandcamp Videos: You Tube Channel Books: Hymns for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), Christmas Carols for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), A DADGAD Christmas, Alternate Tunings book Online Course: Alternate Tunings for Fingerstyle Guitar Last edited by Doug Young; 10-20-2018 at 01:22 PM. |
#127
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A good test would certainly cover more ground than I'm capable of. There are a ton of preamp tests out there, better done than I can do, so this would be more of a real-world comparison, just home studio, solo acoustic guitar, etc. To do a truly fair, scientific comparison, you'd need a way to record to all preamps at once (some kind of mic splitter, which would introduce it's own issues), and record one performance. So all I'm proposing is similar to what I did with the mics, just what a real person gets in a home studio. One challenge is that I'd have to do multiple performances. However, I'd argue that if the difference between preamps doesn't rise above minor differences in performance, then maybe it's not all that important in the grand scheme of things. On the other hand, a bigger issue is how swayed we can be by performance. If I play great thru preamp A, and lousy, or produce bad tone on the performance thru preamp B, you'll probably prefer preamp A. I'd try to play something simple and consistently, but there will be variations, and who knows what someone's ear would pick up on. but I'm starting to get some ideas how to do it, with lots of caveats...
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Music: Spotify, Bandcamp Videos: You Tube Channel Books: Hymns for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), Christmas Carols for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), A DADGAD Christmas, Alternate Tunings book Online Course: Alternate Tunings for Fingerstyle Guitar |
#128
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Preamp and mike shootouts have been done before of course. Used to be a website called listeningsessions which had a dozen or more high end mikes and preamps in combinations for comparisons and high rez audio files. It was interesting how very much the same the different gear sounded.
FWIW here is a smaller, lower rez, you tube shootout. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWh0Y13rGB8
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Derek Coombs Youtube -> Website -> Music -> Tabs Guitars by Mark Blanchard, Albert&Mueller, Paul Woolson, Collings, Composite Acoustics, and Derek Coombs "Reality is that which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Woods hands pick by eye and ear
Made to one with pride and love To be that we hold so dear A voice from heavens above Last edited by rick-slo; 10-20-2018 at 03:52 PM. |
#129
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This is a perplexing shootout. With results I would not have expected. Very interesting & strange.
Some of the higher end preamps seem to stifle the dynamics. Now I am really confused..ha ha.. |
#130
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This thread has become a 'life changer' for me. For a long time already I was not satisfied with my Røde NT5s (beit upgraded with Michael Jolly capsules). When I first heard Doug's comparison between de Gefells en the Schoeps they both convinced me I needed to make some drastic decisions. But the shoot out made me hesitate. Initially I fell for the Schoeps but listening again and again - also to recordings by Michael Watts - I got equally if not more charmed by the Gefells. To my ear the latter sound so super natural. I am open to correction and I know the profile of the Schoeps proves to be flatter and therefore(?) these mics should sound even more natural. That could well be the case and probably I got biased because of the considerable difference in price but I tried to be honest with myself and open-minded. After some sleepless nights I decided to bite the bullet and go for the Gefells. To make it financially viable I first had to sell some redundant items in my studio (which went well). But pristine mics come at a double high price because now I also needed a good preamp. For my vocals I made that qualitative jump already a year ago when I went from a Røde NT1 to a Neumann 87 ai. Gee wizz what a difference that made! I coupled it on a Focusrite ISA One which turned out to be an excellent combination. By then I realized what a good mic and a good preamp really meant. Teutonic registration and British amplification proved themselves a superb match. Since the ISA One would not suffice with the Gefells in the studio I decided to also sell the One (which went even better) and head for the ISA Two. A bit of a gamble but at the same time an educated guess. The preamp will arrive early next week, the Gefells in two weeks time. Hopefully I will then be able to make a representative recording. Depending on results my interface will be a Roland Octa-Capture or my older Propellerhead Balance (my DAW is Reason). Both have nice preamps by the way but it was only last year that I learned what a real good external preamp can do to your sound. And meanwhile what a thread can do...!
Last edited by Karel; 10-20-2018 at 03:09 PM. |
#131
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__________________
Derek Coombs Youtube -> Website -> Music -> Tabs Guitars by Mark Blanchard, Albert&Mueller, Paul Woolson, Collings, Composite Acoustics, and Derek Coombs "Reality is that which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Woods hands pick by eye and ear
Made to one with pride and love To be that we hold so dear A voice from heavens above |
#132
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Of course, there are tons of these. My first detailed experience with a professionally done shootout was the AB Pre-CD done years ago, which was fascinating. 40 or so preamps, if I recall, and a major effort. So, anything we post here on AGF is more of an amateur effort just for fun. I can't claim to compete with listeningsessions, SoundPure, etc. One thing I find, tho, is that the pro shootouts rarely use the kinds of material I'm interested in. I don't care about vocals, and I want to hear a good-sounding guitar played fingerstyle. Vocals, drums, electric guitars, strumming, don't tell me anything I want to know. Mostly, of course, I want to hear how the gear works for me, so when I do these, it's mostly to educate myself about what I want to use, and I'm happy to share because it's interesting to get other people's takes on the results, even tho it's possible the results are worthless to anyone else. I'm mostly being tempted to revisit all the various preamp combos I have because of how many people on this thread are saying that preamps make a big difference. My experience is that the differences are so small as to not matter, but one person's mountain is another's molehill, so it may just be a question of what's being focused on. Or maybe I've gotten used to the ones I use and just don't notice the difference because I'm not comparing side-by-side. So worth revisiting.
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Music: Spotify, Bandcamp Videos: You Tube Channel Books: Hymns for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), Christmas Carols for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), A DADGAD Christmas, Alternate Tunings book Online Course: Alternate Tunings for Fingerstyle Guitar |
#133
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__________________
Music: Spotify, Bandcamp Videos: You Tube Channel Books: Hymns for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), Christmas Carols for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), A DADGAD Christmas, Alternate Tunings book Online Course: Alternate Tunings for Fingerstyle Guitar Last edited by Doug Young; 10-20-2018 at 04:08 PM. |
#134
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was a major comparison. Too bad that website has disappeared. It's vary rare to be able to draw any accurate conclusions how gear will perform for ones self from such shootouts but they are fun nevertheless.
__________________
Derek Coombs Youtube -> Website -> Music -> Tabs Guitars by Mark Blanchard, Albert&Mueller, Paul Woolson, Collings, Composite Acoustics, and Derek Coombs "Reality is that which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Woods hands pick by eye and ear
Made to one with pride and love To be that we hold so dear A voice from heavens above |
#135
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Music: Spotify, Bandcamp Videos: You Tube Channel Books: Hymns for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), Christmas Carols for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), A DADGAD Christmas, Alternate Tunings book Online Course: Alternate Tunings for Fingerstyle Guitar |