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  #16  
Old 12-07-2017, 05:49 PM
Frozen Rat Frozen Rat is offline
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Originally Posted by Brucebubs View Post
My statement was 'tongue-in-cheek'.
Shipping to Australia, Import Duty and Sales Tax will be way more than any PayPal fees.
Ha! Just saw that.

You know, it just reminds me of what utility companies do that we never seem to question. You get cellphone service, it's supposed to be $65 a month and you get a bill for $74.56 because of a myriad of "extra fees" are tacked on. Then I see that sort of thing in guitar ads and I'm sorry, it just feels like the same thing to me.

Even if one looks at it as a "well do I like the total price with this added in" concept it's still extra BS that the buyer has to deal with that I feel the seller should handle behind the scenes. Give me a price and tell me I will pay that price and that price only and I'll be much happier to do business.
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  #17  
Old 12-07-2017, 06:06 PM
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Ha....I laugh
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  #18  
Old 12-07-2017, 06:08 PM
Saltamontes Saltamontes is offline
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I don't believe it is correct to request for the buyer to pay PayPal fees, it would make it easier to include the fees in the price of the item.
I had a PayPal account about 15 years ago, never again. As it turned out fraudulently, someone somewhere charged over $2000 to my account. eBay would not get involved, took many email messages and numerous phone calls to attempt to clear things up, which never happened. To top it off I had to submit affidavits (had to pay lawyers fees) to get absolutely nothing back. Last figure I had was just under $3000 (PayPal & lawyer fees), never got a penny back.
Call me stupid if you can, but I am from the old school, my handshake means more than anything. I have purchased a couple of items via this forum, I will submit full payment for the item (bank money order in US funds), once the seller has received full payment, he/she ships the item. I have never been cheated, obviously there are still some of us with some integrity left in this world.
One transaction the seller quoted certain amount for shipping, I submitted payment plus the quoted shipping fee, the seller stated he would send the item prior to the payment being received, I got the item, he received the payment, as it turns out he quoted me the wrong shipping fee and shorted himself, we exchanged messages and once I became aware he had made a mistake with the shipping fee, I gladly submitted the amount he was short.
This gentleman is an active member in this forum and he was a pleasure doing business with.
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  #19  
Old 12-07-2017, 06:35 PM
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Shades of Blue Shades of Blue is offline
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Here’s the thing, sellers can ask whatever they like. It’s the buyer’s job to negotiate. You don’t want to pay fees? Make an offer and note you aren’t paying fees. If the seller still doesn’t agree, move on.

I include the fees in my asking price. Once a buyer offers lower than asking, I will give them my rock bottom price, but it still includes fees.

Here’s when I ask for fees. When a buyer sends me a low offer that’s got me in the fence of accepting, I’ll ask you to pay fees. Still in the buyer’s court.

Sometimes I think buyer’s get a little entitled and want the moon. We are all in the same boat buying and selling. Be fair, have fun, don’t take it personal.
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  #20  
Old 12-07-2017, 06:48 PM
Silly Moustache Silly Moustache is offline
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I totally agree with the OP. I use Paypal to buy items on Ebay, but don't care for it when selling ....not because I begrudge the 4% charge but because they once "pended" the payment for a guitar "in case it was not of an acceptable standard". I pointed out that he had collected it and inspected ad approved it.

They still kept me waiting for some weeks.

Apparently the higher the amount the more likely it will be pended.
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  #21  
Old 12-07-2017, 06:58 PM
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If the buyer agrees to pay the fee, and the fee is bundled into the price , how does the seller avoid the fee being assessed when the transaction is processed?

I guess I thought PayPal deducts the fee as the money passes from buyer to seller.
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  #22  
Old 12-07-2017, 07:17 PM
charles Tauber charles Tauber is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drplayer View Post
I look at total cost, so if the total cost is still a win for me, then why should I care how my dollars are dispursed?
I think that is all that matters: look at the all-in price to own it. If it is worth it to you, do it, if not, don't. All that matters is your total cost.

Stating a price that does not represent the actual cost to the buyer might well be an attempt to attract attention to the item by listing it low, with the seller knowing that isn't the actual cost to the buyer. I wouldn't buy something from someone who does that. I find it dishonest, or, at best, misleading.
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  #23  
Old 12-07-2017, 07:22 PM
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I dont like it and wont think about a guitar if a seller says you pay the fees. Hes the one that wants to sell. Ive never paid the fees, traditionally its not been required. Theres a local restaurant that used to require a fee if you used your credit card. I stopped going there except in emergencies when I have cash. The last time I was there I noticed they had a debit card machine. Gotta do what you gotta do if you want to sell something. Now if it was a 1946 Martin 000 18 with an incredibly low price that I would think about. Still if would gall me.
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  #24  
Old 12-07-2017, 07:23 PM
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depends on the total package price. If the Paypal fees are $100 but the guitar is $200 underpriced then I'll gladly pay them
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  #25  
Old 12-07-2017, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
Lastly, I thought that it was verboten to try to push those fees on the buyer. Am I wrong?
No and Yes. eBay owns PayPal, and it IS verboten to add PayPal fees to an eBay transaction after the fact.

However, PayPal is useful for other transactions, and, as noted above, the seller and buyer can both do exactly what they want. I try to be clear in the ad. In my case, I use a fairly common phrase like "PayPalled and shipped" after my asking price, so the potential buyer knows it's the "grand total out the door no hidden costs, no added fees".

OTOH I can see the seller's position, particularly if he is offering PayPal as an OPTION on a $10,000 item. In that case, I can see a cash/check/wire transaction as the primary offer, with PayPal being the buyer's responsibility if the buyer wants to add benefits only Paypal provides.

As a corollary note, I am fairly amused that some buyers won't touch a $300 all-inclusive "free shipping" eBay auction, but will bid like there's no tomorrow on the same guitar, opening bid $225, shipping $75. Like the Paypal fees, it can be looked at as a buyer-option, not a seller-demand.
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  #26  
Old 12-07-2017, 07:41 PM
Reasley Reasley is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charles Tauber View Post

Stating a price that does not represent the actual cost to the buyer might well be an attempt to attract attention to the item by listing it low, with the seller knowing that isn't the actual cost to the buyer. I wouldn't buy something from someone who does that. I find it dishonest, or, at best, misleading.
Thank you, Charles, for describing what the term "low-ball" truly means. And it IS misleading as you say. But still effective.

As a marketing professional, the term "low-ball" is used incorrectly about 99% of the time by others. It is usually (mis) used by saying something like "yeah, I gave them a low-ball offer," and they mean that they -- the BUYER -- "threw a low-ball." This is incorrect.

A low-ball really means that the SELLER offers something at a very attractive price AND the seller has NO INTENTION of honoring it.

The theory behind the practice (which is UNETHICAL, by the way) is based on psychological research on commitment. If one can get someone to commit to a decision, then that person starts building up additional support for why they made the decision.

Then, after a period of time, the low-ball (the thing that motivated initial commitment) is retracted. Because the decision now has additional psychological justification, the person that made the commitment will remain committed. Not always, but enough to justify the practice's continued (unethical) use.

A BUYER could also "throw a low-ball," but it would require offering MORE than what the seller wants -- again, with no intention of honoring the low-ball after the SELLER commits.
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  #27  
Old 12-07-2017, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozen Rat View Post
No, that's not true. No one is getting anything for nothing here, it's a matter of who is responsible for paying that fee. The seller wants to sell a guitar, there's a fee involved to use the payment network, and the seller is trying to pass that along to the buyer. There's been a lot of legal talk about this kind of thing in California over the last decade as to whether sellers can pass along those fees, mostly they are not allowed to do so. If the seller buries those fees in the total price then so be it, it's part of their hard costs and guitar sellers should do the same, bury it in the price like everyone else has to do. Either way, how would the buyer know? And if they don't and charge it as an after charge, how does the buyer know the seller isn't double-dipping?

Take this example: You go to Macys and buy a suit and it rings up $200 plus $20 tax, $220, but then Macy's says, well we get charged 3% by MasterCard to process this payment so we want you to pay that too, bringing your actual cost now to $226. That's exactly what is going on with a seller passing along PayPal fees. Gas stations used to do this, then it became outlawed, but now I see they do it again, same thing.
Ohh...kay.....

So you are fine with paying those fees, so long as no one tells you that you are paying them.

Whatever gets you through the night, mate.
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  #28  
Old 12-07-2017, 09:20 PM
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I just listed a guitar for sale and I’m paying shipping and PayPal fees. That was the arrangement when I bought the guitar new online, so why wouldn’t I offer the same thing.
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  #29  
Old 12-07-2017, 09:44 PM
Denny B Denny B is offline
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An up front, simple "$XXXX, paypalled and shipped" gets my attention...

We have one price point to negotiate from...

When my final all in offer agrees with the seller's final needed "$ to me, out the door price", we have a deal...
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  #30  
Old 12-07-2017, 11:34 PM
Frozen Rat Frozen Rat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
Ohh...kay.....

So you are fine with paying those fees, so long as no one tells you that you are paying them.

Whatever gets you through the night, mate.
You are not understanding the true essence of what I am getting at. Think about it on a deeper level. There are fees involved for doing business with credit and with currency exchangers like PayPal, and those fees are understood to be the seller's responsibility as the price of doing business. It always feels like padding when the seller tries to push them to the buyer. If the seller includes the fees in the sale price then the seller can decide if THAT price is acceptable and what probably ends up happening even then is that the buyer senses the price has been slightly elevated and offers lower. In the end the seller typically ends up netting the same either way, so there's no reason to try breaking those fees out and complicating matters, and also turning away buyers like me. I'm not alone.

Have you ever sold a house? If you have then you know that you pay the agent(s) 6% (unless it's a condo or manufactured house where it can be closer to 10%). As a seller you do not get to pass that along to the buyer. You would never get away with settling on a price of 300k for the sale of the house and then say, oh BTW, I don't want to pay that 6% agent fee so you'll have to write me a check for $318k instead of 300k. Hopeless that analogy makes what I'm trying to say a bit clearer.
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