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  #181  
Old 12-04-2017, 12:27 AM
davidl13 davidl13 is offline
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Originally Posted by rockabilly69 View Post
Watts are meaningless???? Not to me, I do think if rated correctly, specifically in RMS at full frequency range, it's a baseline, but the amp needs to tick all my boxes when I pick what I'm going to spend big money on (over a thousand dollars), and the Schertler Jam 400 that I've been gigging with has better dispersion, better vocal tone, real 48 volt phantom power on all channels, much bigger low-end (compared directly to the Rosette), more channels, and for reliability my JAM 400 has at least 750 gigs on it without a blip. Funny thing, I paid for the Schertler with the first three gigs I did with it!!!! And the price is equal to that of the Rosette which has just been raised. How's that for real life comparison. If the Rosette was a better option for me I wouldn't waste 10 minutes, I'd buy it, I actually tested it directly against my Jam 400, and it came up way short for what I need my rigs to do. And just recently, Schertler introduced the "Roy" that added better EQ to the JAM 400, a standalone reverb with a Decay control, a separate FX buss with up to 800ms of delay, and adjustable output on the DI. Pretty much the wishlist, (when combined with the features the Jam 400 already had) for what I want in a self contained acoustic amp /PA. As I've said in the past, my only complaint about the Schertler Jam 400 is the 48 lb weight, which the Roy also weighs in at!

All that said, the right amp, is the one that fits your needs.

Correct, Watts are a meaningless statistic... not in you mind, but in reality... the difference between 300 and 400 is imperceptible...except that the marketing department knows how to tickle your fancy... there are so many other factors that determine clean power relative to dB volume... that the watts is just marketing folks doing there thing...
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  #182  
Old 12-04-2017, 12:39 AM
rockabilly69 rockabilly69 is offline
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Originally Posted by davidl13 View Post
Correct, Watts are a meaningless statistic... not in you mind, but in reality... the difference between 300 and 400 is imperceptible...except that the marketing department knows how to tickle your fancy... there are so many other factors that determine clean power relative to dB volume... that the watts is just marketing folks doing there thing...
Agree to disagree. Same amp, same transformers. Pull one one power tube in a parallel class A amp see if you can hear the difference in clean volume. Having the extra RMS power is not always about perceived volume change as it is the amp having the reserve power necessary to produce the the transient frequencies when needed.
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  #183  
Old 12-04-2017, 07:50 AM
davidl13 davidl13 is offline
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Originally Posted by rockabilly69 View Post
Agree to disagree. Same amp, same transformers. Pull one one power tube in a parallel class A amp see if you can hear the difference in clean volume. Having the extra RMS power is not always about perceived volume change as it is the amp having the reserve power necessary to produce the the transient frequencies when needed.

These are not tube amps and your analogy is not remotely on the map of what is happening in the amps being discussed... if you understood amplifier technology as it relates to the two amps being discussed, a rosette and a jam400,you would realize this.. this is not a matter of opinion, it is a reality...

1.not tube amps,
2.not pulling tubes to cut power in half
3.not the same transformers

The marketing department owns your brain and you are not looking at the technology as it is.

As for which amp you like better for your use? that is a personal choice and decided by many practical factors as you described above that, in reality have absolutely zero to do with whether it is 300 or 400 watts... all marketing hype,
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  #184  
Old 12-04-2017, 02:59 PM
cjohnson2900 cjohnson2900 is offline
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Default DI Outs

I've read through this entire thread and I didn't happen to see an answer to this question: how important are two Direct Outs? I don't know much about running a soundboard or a PA but are two outs that big of deal? I've noticed that on the Acus or the Schertler's they only have one Direct Out. Do any of you feel strongly about having two Direct Out's? Also, the Rosette is the only amp that I've EVER seen that gives you the option of running the pre-mix or post-mix on the Direct Outs. Is that feature as cool or as useful as it seems?
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  #185  
Old 12-04-2017, 03:16 PM
jimmorgan jimmorgan is offline
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It's just more flexible. It allows you to for instance use the rosette as a monitor and EQ the amp for the way you want to hear it, and then send an unaffected signal to the front of house and let them EQ it separately for their system. You can send vocals and instrument separately so they can be treated separately.

Or, for instance, last night I was playing upright bass through the Rosette in a new venue and didn't know the sound person, and it seems few people know what to do with an upright signal, so I just EQ'd it myself, and flipped the switch to post EQ and sent it along. It probably wasn't perfect, but at least I wasn't feeding back all night (which you tend to do when people don't know what to do with an upright bass)

Or you can use two channels as channel strips for recording and go out of the direct outs into your interface, pre or post EQ.

It's just flexible. Different people may or may not need all the flexibility depending on what their needs are.
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  #186  
Old 12-04-2017, 03:22 PM
davidl13 davidl13 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjohnson2900 View Post
I've read through this entire thread and I didn't happen to see an answer to this question: how important are two Direct Outs? I don't know much about running a soundboard or a PA but are two outs that big of deal? I've noticed that on the Acus or the Schertler's they only have one Direct Out. Do any of you feel strongly about having two Direct Out's? Also, the Rosette is the only amp that I've EVER seen that gives you the option of running the pre-mix or post-mix on the Direct Outs. Is that feature as cool or as useful as it seems?

If you are interfacing with a mixing board for live or recording it can be a signiciant advantage .. the idea is that you can have separate channels and tracks for each input channel, whether that be for different instruments or a dual pickup system... You can isolate each on the mixer...

As for pre/post eq... This allows you the ability to fine tune the tone of your instrument to the sound stage where you are listening and not effect what is being sent to the mixer...

Both of these features can be significant in for live and recording... I would not consider purchasing a system that did not have these features... Unless you knew you were not going to be sending direct signals to a mixer

BTW,this can mostly be accomplished with outboad direct boxes, however having this integrated makes for a very convenient and practical ssolution...

Last edited by davidl13; 12-04-2017 at 03:58 PM.
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  #187  
Old 12-04-2017, 06:17 PM
agedhorse agedhorse is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjohnson2900 View Post
I've read through this entire thread and I didn't happen to see an answer to this question: how important are two Direct Outs? I don't know much about running a soundboard or a PA but are two outs that big of deal? I've noticed that on the Acus or the Schertler's they only have one Direct Out. Do any of you feel strongly about having two Direct Out's? Also, the Rosette is the only amp that I've EVER seen that gives you the option of running the pre-mix or post-mix on the Direct Outs. Is that feature as cool or as useful as it seems?
This is a good question, and this feature comes out of some practical real world applications (that tend to be more on the pro side of the spectrum)

The most common application for pro touring use is to have the pre, dry channel DI's sent to the FOH console, where appropriate processing (eq, dynamics and effects) will be added to allow the instruments to sit well within the mix as well as fit the acoustic properties of the room. The post, wet mix output would more often be sent to the monitor console, where the player has already developed the voicing and effects and perhaps the mix of the two channels (if using a dual pick-up system) that works for him on the stage. Anything used in the monitors is then consistent with what the player is hearing on stage himself. This feature was first exploited in t his way on an amp model we designed that was used on the Eagles Fairwell series of tours, those amps were later used on Timothy B. Schmitt tours in much the same way.

Other uses are for recording, and possibly for rehearsing where another player might be trying to learn some guitar parts from another player and is using one dry channel as a reference.

It's really for flexibility, to allow for more options.
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  #188  
Old 12-04-2017, 08:59 PM
jimmorgan jimmorgan is offline
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agedhorse, would you mind answering a few questions about the Rosette?

What's the best way to run a balanced line level signal into the amp? There's the aux input on the back, but that sums to mono so a balanced signal would cancel itself out.

Is it possible to use the effects return as a line in? And would that be a good solution?

Thanks.
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  #189  
Old 12-04-2017, 09:27 PM
davidl13 davidl13 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmorgan View Post
agedhorse, would you mind answering a few questions about the Rosette?

What's the best way to run a balanced line level signal into the amp? There's the aux input on the back, but that sums to mono so a balanced signal would cancel itself out.

Is it possible to use the effects return as a line in? And would that be a good solution?

Thanks.
why would you want to run a balanced line level to the amp? what is the application?
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  #190  
Old 12-05-2017, 07:28 AM
jimmorgan jimmorgan is offline
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I've got some rack mic preamps and effects that every now and then I drag out if I need a few extra channels, and just for fun, anyway they all output balanced line level signals.
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  #191  
Old 12-05-2017, 10:31 AM
davidl13 davidl13 is offline
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Originally Posted by jimmorgan View Post
I've got some rack mic preamps and effects that every now and then I drag out if I need a few extra channels, and just for fun, anyway they all output balanced line level signals.
if your preamp doesn't have an unbalanced output, you can always get a balanced to unbalanced convertor and input the aux input..
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  #192  
Old 12-06-2017, 11:19 AM
varmonter varmonter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjohnson2900 View Post
I've read through this entire thread and I didn't happen to see an answer to this question: how important are two Direct Outs? I don't know much about running a soundboard or a PA but are two outs that big of deal? I've noticed that on the Acus or the Schertler's they only have one Direct Out. Do any of you feel strongly about having two Direct Out's? Also, the Rosette is the only amp that I've EVER seen that gives you the option of running the pre-mix or post-mix on the Direct Outs. Is that feature as cool or as useful as it seems?
For me anyway it's helpful. I play guitar and mandolin in the band.
I can eq each channel on the amp for each instrument.
The DIs out on the back would go to 2 different channels on the
board and those two channels could be eqd seperatly.
I do this now with my felix preamp. Very handy. For those who play
More than one instrument on stage.
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  #193  
Old 12-12-2017, 09:05 PM
agedhorse agedhorse is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmorgan View Post
agedhorse, would you mind answering a few questions about the Rosette?

What's the best way to run a balanced line level signal into the amp? There's the aux input on the back, but that sums to mono so a balanced signal would cancel itself out.

Is it possible to use the effects return as a line in? And would that be a good solution?

Thanks.
Sorry, I missed this question...

There are several ways to do this, depending on what on-board signal processing you need. The balanced input on the front will handle a line level signal with the gain set low (there's a fair amount of headroom in the differential input amp stage), so if you were to set the input gain to 9:00, and you might need to set the master a little lower than usual as well, you should be good to go (with all the eq on the Rosette available). If you need more headroom, turn the output level of the external mic pre down a bit.

You can't really (easily) use the effects return as a line level input because it's a parallel loop at the effects insert stage.

The other option is to use the aux input as a line level input, but to do so you would need an adapter that connects pin 3 to pin 1 (converting the source to unbalanced) which would also tie pin 3 to the sleeve. Sometimes you can leave the ring (which would be pin 3) floating, but not if the mic pre has a transformer balanced output.

As you correctly noted, you can't take an XLR to TRS cable directly into the aux input because much of the signal would cancel out due to the summing of out of phase signal halves.

Hope this helps.
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  #194  
Old 12-12-2017, 09:30 PM
Martin Maniac Martin Maniac is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjohnson2900 View Post
I've read through this entire thread and I didn't happen to see an answer to this question: how important are two Direct Outs? I don't know much about running a soundboard or a PA but are two outs that big of deal? I've noticed that on the Acus or the Schertler's they only have one Direct Out. Do any of you feel strongly about having two Direct Out's? Also, the Rosette is the only amp that I've EVER seen that gives you the option of running the pre-mix or post-mix on the Direct Outs. Is that feature as cool or as useful as it seems?
Well for me I use the amp as a pre-amp for recording. Channel one for vocals and channel two for guitar. Recorded to separate tracks....very handy. The pre/post option comes in handy if you do or don't want an EQ and effects on your signal going into a mixing board or recording rig.. this is why the Rosette has won a permanent spot in my recording chain.
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  #195  
Old 12-27-2017, 02:03 PM
big jilm big jilm is offline
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I am up in Rockland County NY visiting with my wife’s family, and we stopped by a music store up here that has one of these in stock. I didn’t have time to play through it, but I was shocked at how small and lightweight this amp is. I am really intrigued. It looks like it would be heavy - real solid looking thing. Light as a feather.
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