[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by sdelsolray

...I have to disagree with these statements.
...First, phase issues, such as the comb filtering effect, show up in mono mixes, not fully panned stereo mixes. This is why multiple source recordings are collapsed to mono, on a test basis, to see if any phase issues exist. You can't hear phase cancellation unless you are listening to a mono source, collapsed from two or more sources.

Hi SDR...
He asked specifically about the Zoom H4 being used for stereo live mic, and that rig is not going to be out of phase, or have comb issues of major proportions since it is a fixed X/Y pair of mics (X/Y is used so recordists won't encounter those issues).

Second, stereo mixes do not usually contain tracks (or instruments) that are panned 100% left and/or right. Usually, the panning is much less. We hear in stereo. Using a PA to emulate that is a good thing, if done properly.

In an ideal world. I've encountered many groups panning live PAs with keys panned hard L-R, and guitar rigs as well.

Stereo, moderate or otherwise when in live PA situations can easily produce ''anomalies''. This is especially true of moving situations (different locations with mobile rigs).

We ran stereo PAs several years ago for months, because the artists were asking for us to - particularly guitarists with stereo pedals and keyboardists. They liked the way it ''felt'' when the chorus swept through the room - you know what I mean.

We kept running up against issues and consulted with a sound specialist who was a sound engineer (with an engineering degree type of engineer) that was running sound in both studio and live for a profession.

He pointed us back to mono and the ''anomalies'' (vocal and guitars disappearing) cleared up instantly. We were only moderately panning voices around the center to about mid-point of either side, and in relation to how they were standing on stage L-R. We were hard panning the guitar effects and keyboard rigs.

We are not discussing studio here, but live sound. Things in the ''real world'' (think mobile rigs in different settings every time) don't respond like studio work in a fixed environment.

Third, why would female singers and acoustic guitarists be more prone to phase issues than any other instrument or vocalist? Whether phase issues arise does not depend on the instrument or vocalist, but on other factors independent of the source material.

First off, I'm a practicer not a theoretician.

I never asked the engineer/tech why those instruments and vocal ranges in particular were more prone to disappearing from the mix than bass guitars, keys or sopranos and tenors. But when I began describing the problem to him, he asked if the female vocalists and acoustic guitars were dropping in the mix disproportionate to levels indicated on the board, and that was exactly what we were encountering. He asked, ''You are running stereo aren't you?''

We said ''Yes.'' He said ''Run mono and they show back up in the mix.'' We tried it and he was correct.

Not one to give up (or give in) easily I asked him "Why?'' and he said there are phase cancellation issues with running stereo PA systems that frequently cause lower female voices and acoustic guitars to drop in the live mix...at least that's what I thought I heard him say. I was paying for his time and ideas, because mine didn't work.

I asked what other solutions there are to still allow running live stereo and his response was ''Stereo is for studio, mono works best live.''

We believed him. It worked.

Oh by the way, we solved the issue with the musicians by putting a pair of amps - one on either side of them - on the stage connected in Stereo with mics on each of them which were summed back to mono at the board. They stood between them ''feeling'' the sweeps and we happily mixed our sound.

So we don't lose the point of the topic, this thread is about the H4 recorder, and somebody making choices as to a mic for both live and recording applications crept in. While it's an interesting topic, as is stereo versus mono recording and PA work, it is straying a bit from the original focus of the thread. Perhaps if we choose to pursue this more, someone could start a new discussion to see who wants to discuss it more.