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Old 03-01-2019, 09:32 PM
RobbinsT RobbinsT is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmagill View Post
I'm a fan of Tyler's and this sounds like an exciting project, but I'm a little unclear on what you're trying to achieve, other than getting three great guitars. What is the goal here? Are you testing Tyler's skill, or the differences in the tonewoods?

Is the point to see if Tyler can replicate an identical tone with 3 different B&S tonewoods? If so, the results will say something about his abilities as a luthier to hit his target sound no matter what woods he uses. Or, is the point to produce 3 different flavors of his signature tone? If so, the goal is then to isolate the different tonal qualities of the woods.

Either would be an interesting project, but it would be helpful as I follow along to know what target you're aiming at...
Hey Jim, nice to see you checking in. I hope your doing well and I am very much looking forward to Swannanoa this year!

As for the project I think it is a matter of curiosity rather then reaching a specific goal. If the guitars are so identical that you cannot tell the difference then it will instill more confidence in the statement that a great guitar can be built out of most any species if you know how to manipulate it properly. If they all have there own specific voice, I will have controlled the other variables enough to equate any audible difference in tone to the back and side species with more certainty. If they are different this will add to my ability to properly describe how a species might affect tone based on my own research to more effectively guide clients through material selection and build process in general.


Quote:
Originally Posted by guitaradam View Post
Alright, jumping back in here now.

Thanks Tyler for adding those photos and sharing your perspective with this project.

Why Braz? From my perspective, we were looking for three outstanding sets of wood. And the first choice was brazilian. For two reasons. One, Tyler had never built a "Robbins" build with it, despite his extensive use of it at the school. And I simply wanted to know what this budding, gifted youngster could do with it. And secondly, it's widely held as the gold standard.

Why Madagascar? Well, to me MRW is considered by many to be a great non-Braz alternative, but providing acoustics and tone that are similar. So could Tyler make a non-braz alternative sound as good as braz? We picked a nice quartsawn set, hoping we could give it the best chance to compete with the Braz.

Why Macassar Ebony? To me Mac Ebony represents one of the more visually stunning sets of wood out there. It's hard to argue that it is simply beautiful. And so the question was, using a matched top, could we get this set to tonally be similar to the finest brazilian out there. Can Tyler make any "pretty" wood sound as amazing as the finest tonewoods?

And its not that the goal was to make every guitar sound the same, but to control, as best as possible, the variables involved so as to truly get a flavor for how these back and sides sets color the tone.

So Tyler, talk to us about what goes through your mind as you approach box contruction. You've got in front of you 3 different wood types. How to assess the wood evaluation as you plan the build? Do you simply say, "Well I'll build them all the same and then hope, once strung up, they sound good!" Or do you vary your thickness, bracing, etc to try to achieve some measurable goal?

Same for the tops - How can you try to be sure that the tops are "matched" and can be a controlled variable? Also, I've played guitars I love with so many spruce varieties, and I've noted that you've built a lot with Engelmann tops. Is there some aspects we might be able to expect from Italian?

After you address these points and questions, lets jump into the esthetic discussion shall we?
Okay so when I approach box construction the first thing is to take the plates to a known state. Again, removing variables. If I have a plate of mahogany and one of cocobolo at the same thickness not only will the cocobolo be heavier but odds are its going to be stiffer as well. If you have a set thickness, lets say .110", for your plates like a big guitar company would, you are immediately introducing error into the build when it comes to consistency. Each piece of wood is different. Even if it is the same species, taking both plates blindly to a dimension will result in a different stiffness from the start.

I have a method taught to me by Bryan and Sam that allows me to take factors into account such as size, weight, stiffness, frequencies to calculate how thin a plate needs to be to flex a predetermined amount. I need to be able to control the plates with bracing so predicting thickness lets me know that I can safely brace a plate. Safety in this instance means I have room to voice it with out starting out to low where I can not carve the braces or too high which would result in braces being carved down too much to hit a target frequency.

As for tops. I have had my hands on 1200-1500 tops and tested each individually. My thoughts are that each species has potential to have a "10 top" but I think that some species are more susceptible to having the characteristics necessary to be rated as such. If you recall my previous post I said I tested 55 tops of both German and Italian spruce. The kicker for the German was that it was too heavy. The plates would have to be significantly stiffer to compensate for the extra weight they were carrying. On the flip side the Italian was more consistently lighter while retaining stiffness which resulted in the high rating. Does this mean all German is too heavy? No. I've personally dealt with Bryans stash of German "10 tops", but maybe they were harder to find.

I have heard Bryans Guitars with the best of the best German, Sams guitars with the best of the best Sitka and Englemann, and obviously my own experience with Englemann. If the tops are rated closely enough I don't believe I hear any notable difference regardless of species. You can however hear the difference between a '"10 top" and one graded at a 9.

Why have I only really used Englemann? Well to be completely honest, its because I could afford it. I could buy 1 German top or two Englemann for the same price. Since I am grading to find usable tops, using Englemann allowed me to double my chances of finding the good stuff. Well why not sitka? Its cheaper and you said all species can have "10 tops". This is true, I could have stuck with Sitka but the majority of the 1200-1500 tops I had graded were sitka and I just wanted to try something different for a change. Also it seemed to me that Englemann was more accepted in the high end guitar community.

whew.. that was a mouth full.

Hey Adam, lets cue up some more pics. What do you think we should show them next?

-Tyler
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