Schatten HFN thoughts? Any good from experience?
 

Hello all,

I am still looking for my acoustic pickup solution and have been bouncing back and fort among a myriad of choices. I know I want a passive system and one that can reproduce natural sound decently. I recently came across a review for the Schatten HFN and was wondering if any actual owners can weeigh in with their experience with it?

It is supposed to not feedback much at all and have fairly natural sound? is this the case?

Thanks!

Although I have moved on to Dazzo for my passive SBT solution, I still have Schattens in a few guitars.

They share the slight microphone-like quality that Dazzo seems to provide, that can differentiate them from K+K/JJB etc.

My partner still has a Schatten in her main guitar.

The thing I like is that it doesn't need EQ to sound like my guitar, unlike my experience with K+K and JJB.

The one consistent complaint I have heard (but not experienced myself) is difficulty getting sufficient bass response.
Many need to reinstall to get a better sound, and some never are able to get the bass they desire. YMMV.

Thank you, that's good quality feedback. Am hoping for more thoughts but VG info TY!

Go with a Dazzo for passive or a Trance Amulet M if you want active. I haven't gotten good results with two Schatten HFN Artist 2 active systems, not enough strong bass response.

I've been happy with mine in testing with my own PA, amps, and monitors. I will be gigging with it in a few weeks and am anxious to hear it in a band mix, but I suspect I will like it more then the K&K.

It is fairly sensitive to install, but the install is easy - I like the putty much more then the tape... I was very shocked at how different the two installs sound.

It's a bright pickup... I usually cut some treble, and boost bass just a hair... but it, by default, is closer to what I want eq wise then a K&K.

Here's a link to a K&K and a HFN comparison - note the K&K is in a HD-35 and the HFN is in a J-45. Both ran through felix preamp with some eq at the preamp - no post process.

https://soundcloud.com/dean-riley-47...8fef947a82f54f

https://soundcloud.com/dean-riley-47...0fed5ef8e15067

I have the HFN in an Eastman 00 12 fret and a Cordoba C10 nylon string crossover. I really like the over all tone and have no issue with lack off bass in either instrument.

I have an HFN in one guitar, the JJB in one, and a mag pickup in the third. The HFN sounds the most balanced and natural of those three but it's also the lowest output. I absolutely cannot use it without a preamp. The others sound their best with a preamp but would still work without it.

I had a Schatten HFN in my HD28 for a while. It was nice, but I did prefer my HD28 with the actual pickup I'm using. I tested the putty and tape install (several times), but none of them gave me what I wanted. I just needed more bass response. I do prefer to mess with the K&K heavy bass in a preamp, and remove what's there, than try to add something that's lacking (and that's why I prefered the K&K than the HFN).

The fun fact is that I've heard really nice reviews online about the HFN. Some of them sounded pretty awesome to my ears. Maybe I just got a bad unit? We'll never know... living in Brazil is really a bad thing when you are trying to buy gears that we don't have here. That's my sad love story with the HFN.

Anyway... life moves on, and now I'm getting a really nice acoustic tone with my K&K Pure Mini and Grace Design Felix2 preamp. I got an even better tone (the best I've ever had) combining the K&K with an AKG c516 internal mic using the Felix2, but since I'm using the 1st channel of the Felix2 for a vocal mic, I am now back only to the mono source pickup with the K&K Pure Mini. I'll work on a way to use a blender for that dual source system and send a mono blended signal to the Felix 2nd channel. I'll figure that out with the help of my friend AlohaChris.

It's a frustrating pickup. On one hand, it sounds very mic-like, on the other hand, it just doesn't have enough low end. I tried a ton of installations with the HFN and some sounded incredible. The issue was that the low E always had a disconnected tone. It was coming through, it just felt distant. I sometimes wonder what it would sound like if the transducer was attached directly to the soundboard without the plastic base.

Hey gtrplayer (And others)
Why passive. Do you mean direct into the sound system or would there be a pre out side of the guitar. I do feel the HFN (as well as most systems) benefit from a decent Pre.

I replaced an active K&K, which is part of a dual source system with the HFN.
So my opinion is based on an active set up.

The HFN does have a slightly more mic like vibe to it, but it still does not sound like a mic.
And as mentioned, it has less low end then the K&K, but to my ears It has more clarity in the lows.

I like it over the KK but my system is active. And I have an internal pre amp which has 3 band eq for each the HFN and the mic. A slight bump in the lows goes a long way for the HFN. Blending in some mic adds the mic like quality I look for.

Have not had feed back issues but I have only done solo gigs with this guitar

Schatten HFN is a single piezo element that sits above a 3D printed base with 3 feet. That nature of this pickup being suspended below the bridge plate is that it senses vibrations from being directly coupled to the bridge plate with the three feet and the from the air movement inside the guitar. All of this variance in vibrations makes it sound more realistic and 3D as compared to an under saddle piezo. The downside is getting it to sound the way you want it to in terms of balance, tone, and overall signal strength. I have had a couple of good installs with this pickup. But, the most common complaint with the pickup is a "thin" sound.

I always thought the mounting base was a CNC'd piece of wood. Are we sure it is 3D printed? It does look plastic whereas the older units look to be wooden (I bet the original sounds better! Hahaha).

https://www.djangobooks.com/media/ec...dlg/HFN600.jpg
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/00...g?v=1540049673

At any rate, the thin sound is probably due to the nature of the mounting, being "coupled" by three feet only. The K&K, Dazzo, Amulet, PUTW, Ultra Tonic, etc. are all glued/taped directly to the bridgeplate. Piezos don't sense air really, they are not microphonic. They need physical vibration to convert signal to voltage. You can blow on, yell at, etc. a piezo element all day long and not get any type of signal from the movement of "air." The HFN mounting seems to be an effort to EQ what vibrations the piezo element is picking up at the cost of de-coupling (being further away) from the bridgeplate; i.e. a thinner tone. Or maybe it's the plastic foot.

That being said, has anyone experimented with the placement of the HFN similar to previous discussions regarding the Baggs Lyric placement options? Behind the bridge pins...warmer, fuller tone?

Love the SChattens - all I use these days, but, as mentioned, you NEED a preamp our the output is too low to be useful. I think it suffers from the bass issue in a bigger guitar maybe, but I have mine in OM, 00 and a single 0 and it sounds great across the spectrum, not real output or brilliance lost at either end.

I installed the older Schatten HFN pickup with the wooden base in my 2012 Schatten HFN Artist +2 and returned it--not enough bass response in a Larrivee dreadnought. I currently have the newer 3-D printed base Schatten HFN Artist +2 in a Martin D-18 and have the same issue with not enough bass response. I think Schatten made the change from a wooden base to a 3-D printed base around 2018. I'm thinking about removing the 3-D base from the HFN and adhering the piezo element directly to the bridge plate as I totally believe the overall amplified response will be better. I make this assessment from having a Schatten NR-2 pickup that is affixed to the biscuit in my Republic Duolian metal-bodied resonator. That pickup has what appears to be the same piezo element as the HFN minus the HFN base.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/01...g?v=1573672680

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/01...G?v=1567371034