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-   -   Buzz in D string, frets 1,2,3 (https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=424992)

sirwhale 04-03-2016 12:09 PM

Buzz in D string, frets 1,2,3
 
If I play the D string hard, on the 1st, 2nd fret & 3rd fret, I get the dreaded buzz.

This only happens when I pick hard, but sometimes you want to pick hard. It is more noticeable on the 2nd fret where you can hear it very slightly when picking normally.

Action is 2.5mm (.098 inches) for that string, so it's not low.

String gauge for that string is 32. Standard tuning.

I've checked the frets with a straight edge and I can't seem to find a high or low fret and these are SS frets, so there is no visual wear after 1.5 years.

It also happened with the last set of strings. Not sure anyone here in Barcelona has any idea about Carbon Fibre and SS frets, it's all nylon string here.

Any ideas what I could do?

steelvibe 04-03-2016 12:54 PM

Are you dropping the tuning of that string? Just wondering. However, even if you are, usually a dropped tuning with super low action will create dead notes up the neck- but not necessarily buzzing.

I would contact Blackbird directly. That would be a concern for me too.
https://www.blackbirdguitar.com/pages/contact

sirwhale 04-03-2016 01:00 PM

It's in standard tuning. If I've had the guitar after 1.5 years, would it not have passed the responsibility of Blackbird by now?

I'm no expert on this, but as I can't find a high or low fret, and there isn't any noticeable wear on the fret, then how can it be buzzing there? For my straight edge I've using the StewMac string action gauge.

Or could there be a high fret (3rd) and It's just hard to see/feel?

Acousticado 04-03-2016 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirwhale (Post 4887584)
It's in standard tuning. If I've had the guitar after 1.5 years, would it not have passed the responsibility of Blackbird by now?

I'm no expert on this, but as I can't find a high or low fret, and there isn't any noticeable wear on the fret, then how can it be buzzing there? For my straight edge I've using the StewMac string action gauge.

Or could there be a high fret (3rd) and It's just hard to see/feel?

I'm not at all acquainted with Blackbird guitars, but this seems quite odd. I s'pose it's possible for a fret to become slightly high but not visible. All I can really offer is, are you absolutely sure there isn't a loose fret, or if it's actually the string that is buzzing as opposed to a loose component reacting to a frequency(ies)?

sirwhale 04-03-2016 11:33 PM

Almost certain there isn't anything else buzzing with the frequency. I've grabbed the wires inside and it doesn't stop it and it definitely sounds like fret buzz (high pitched string sound buzz).

How would you know if a fret is loose? My frets all look stable and in place.

cattzap 04-04-2016 05:30 AM

Are you checking the fret height with a short or long strait edge. I check for them with a short one that covers only three at a time. That way it will rock across the top of a high fret. Also check the neck relief. Capo on the first fret, hold a note at the 17 and see of there is any gap under the strings at the 12. There should be some. Each mfg may suggest different and each player may like it different. You basically using the string as a strait edge. If the neck is dead zero plat it will cause this. My Yamaha with a one way truss rod has this exact issue. Measuring the relief on it shows it at dead flat. I have done everything I can think of to fix it so far. Even clamped it for weeks on a bench.

On yours loosening the truss rod just a smidge may fix it. That's if you feel confident to do this.

Technically, I guess I did actually find a fix to mine. I got a new Seagull

Montesdad 04-04-2016 07:20 AM

First thing I'd do is reseat all the string ends (check both ends) and then recheck the neck relief.

Capo the first fret, press down on the 14 - the gap above the 7th fret "G" string should be about .013 - .015 or the thickness of an unwound medium e string.

I had a buzz once that sounded like it was at the fingers but was coming from under the bridge - my tech is a wizard at finding those things and has a processes of elimination he goes thru.
These are the first two steps and only then is when he'll look at the frets - - - Also take a look a potential back buzz (behind the fret towards the post)

sirwhale 04-04-2016 07:30 AM

Actually, I'm starting to think it is the relief of the neck, with the capo one the 1st fret and pressing on the 13th and 14th fret, there is almost no gap between the the strings and the 6th and 7th fret. Baring softly to stop vibrations behind the played notes doesn't prevent it.

I've not inspected this properly before and only just learnt how to measure it properly. I have a .011 string that is noway near small enough to go through the gap. The G string looks like it is almost touching but you can tell it isn't if you tap on it and hear the knock against the fret.

Obviously, without a truss rod, my only options are to get thicker strings I suppose (which I don't really like), or push the action higher (currently at 2mm-2.75mm, 0.79 - 0.11 inches). Or is it just a case that I shouldn't pick hard? Everywhere else on the neck seems fine even with strumming hardish.

I've had the guitar 1.5 years now but have learnt a lot about construction and measurements in that time. I've only been using 11s since last summer, so it probably wasn't even noticeable with the 12s. The guitar is still playable but you can't dig in on the frets mentioned (well you can but you get this short-lived buzz sometimes).

From using the "rocking test" the frets seem fine. So where do I go from here?

Finger Stylish 04-04-2016 07:52 AM

Try putting a shim(business card thickness) between the string and the nut on just that string. Could be the string has worn the nut groove a little deeper, or perhaps the string itself is worn there.
We all have a tendency to think string buzz is between the fret and the saddle when quite often it goes to the nut.
Just a thought

sirwhale 04-04-2016 08:04 AM

Baring softly to stop vibrations behind the played notes doesn't prevent it.

Doubleneck 04-04-2016 08:05 AM

The guitar probably would be made for standard light guage strings, 12 to 53.
Your going lighter and then using drop D at times. Your choice of strings may just not be creating enough tension to create the manufactures set relief? If you go back to 12-53s and there is no buzz, that could be the simple issue.

sirwhale 04-04-2016 08:14 AM

I think you are right Steve.

I have learnt over time that I prefer very light strings. Flexible round core nickels, 11-50. This has been a gradual change from playing with 13s, 12s, to 11s, and then to even more flexible 11s with lower overall gauges. This will be why I'm noticing it now.

This presents me with a dilemma as I love this guitar. Do I buy thicker strings or do I buy another guitar that bonds better with flexible and lighter strings...

I think really I should also look at my technique, I can be very heavy handed (which would work better with thick gauges anyway).

Let's try some new strings then! (I'm sure some people here would love the relief of this guitar - all you thick string lovers).

Doubleneck 04-04-2016 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirwhale (Post 4888348)
I think you are right Steve.

I have learnt over time that I prefer very light strings. Flexible round core nickels, 11-50. This has been a gradual change from playing with 13s, 12s, to 11s, and then to even more flexible 11s with lower overall gauges. This will be why I'm noticing it now.

This presents me with a dilemma as I love this guitar. Do I buy thicker strings or do I buy another guitar that bonds better with flexible and lighter strings...

Let's try some new strings first then! (I'm sure some people here would love the relief of this guitar - all you thick string lovers).

I would agree with the last statement if it works, you may have near perfect light guage relief. I had a similar problem with my wood Keller Baby when I take it to Nashville high tuning. I did this again last week and I was getting a slight buss when fretting a D chord. Had to back off the truss rod slightly. This guitar has perfect low action with light guage strings, but thus no room for changes in string pull. The reason truss rods can be helpful even in carbons.

cattzap 04-04-2016 10:25 AM

Is there no truss rod in the neck to loosen? You can clamp it to a bench on both ends of the neck then slowly apply pressure with a third clamp and let it sit for some time and see if the wood slowly creeps a little relief into in.

Jimmy Koh 04-04-2016 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cattzap (Post 4888513)
Is there no truss rod in the neck to loosen? You can clamp it to a bench on both ends of the neck then slowly apply pressure with a third clamp and let it sit for some time and see if the wood slowly creeps a little relief into in.

I'm afraid there's no wood here. All CF we are talking about. 😁


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