Titebond Liquid Hide Glue
 

Titebond makes this liquid hide glue, and I was wondering, why I don't read about that in any builders threads. It has a longer open time, which makes it easier to use. I'm thinking of using it for the top bracing of a coming build. Are there any disadvantages compared to home made hot hide glue? Mr. Jelly, what's your opinion?

It's not the same as hot hide glue, and I would not use it for a guitar's bracing, based on what I heard many years ago, i.e., "don't." Maybe it's changed.

But, if you really want something in a squeeze bottle, I'd consider the fish glue from StewMac.

I'd be curious to hear if anyone has tried it... anyone? :D

I used it years ago. 100% of what I used it on came apart as soon as the summer temperatures and humidity hit. (I live in Southwest Ontario, Canada, not tropical.) I used a few different bottles, so it wasn't isolated to a single "bad" or old bottle. At about the same time, other instrument makers had similar results, prompting one maker to send a letter to the editor of Fine Woodworking, asking what could be done about his guitar that was made with Franklin (Titebond) Liquid Hide Glue that was coming apart at the seems.

The damage due to failed glue joints was so extensive to my instruments, that I won't even consider using it. I spoke with a Sales representative from Franklin last year at a woodworking event and he stated that their liquid hide glue had recently been "reformulated". I'm not willing to try it on anything that matters.

Some have had no issues with Franklin's Liquid Hide Glue while others have had experiences similar to mine. Try it if you like, but be aware of the possibility of catastrophic failure. I can think of no reason to recommend its use in any aspect of guitar making when there are so many other reliable alternatives.

That said, I have used Old Brown Glue liquid hide glue without incident. I've also used fish glue without incident. A potential downside to both hide glue and fish glues are their longer clamping times.

It is rubbish stuff with a very weak bond.

In about 1995 I built a classical guitar almost entirely with TLHG and till this day I still own this guitar, it's been through hell and back and it barely has any problems...


I got lucky.


If the date on the bottle is a month old or so then you will probably get away with it. But I would heed Charles's advice based on his experience as many many others who have used it have had the same.

It's just not worth it.

Hundreds of thousands of guitars at this point have been built with Titebond Original or in general AR glues and it's proven itself to be the gold standard for general guitar construction.

FWIW I make my own LHG from HHG by adding salt to extend the work time and it works great. If you want to get into using HHG then it's something to think about. Freshness is key. This stuff does not have a long shelf life.

Many years ago I built some 40 guitars, and a number of banjos and mandolins using Franklin (now Titebond) liquid hide glue. Still no glue failure on any of them as far as I know.

Then, long about 1974 the trouble started. Nearly everything I glued with it came apart. That lead me to abandon the stuff entirely. Turns out it was a matter of age - the glue's not mine. The gel extenders in it break down the proteins over time.

Now, we have age dates on the bottles so we can be assured of freshness - that's a big deal, so we don't get a "bad bottle."

These days, we're seeing a fair bit of glue failure from hot hide glue - not because of the quality of the glue, but because of the technique used in application. The glue MUST, I repeat MUST be fully clamped before it starts to gel. That means mighty quick action unless you're working in a heated room like Martin used in the old North Street factory. Warming the parts and working quickly enough does require some practice, and serious attention.

In short, hot hide glue is for those experienced in using it. . .

I've never used it though I have talked to some luthiers that have but apparently Old Brown Glue is nothing more than liquid hide glue made in the same manner as I mentioned above. They may have a few extra ingredients but Urea is the main one.

When I make it, it still needs to be heated up as it's a rubbery solid in the bottle. But once heated it sufficiently extends the gel time for more tricky operations.

I had only some experience with it many years ago in building a hammered dulcimer that came apart as soon as it was strung up. Whatever its uses may be, I wouldn't include instrument making on the list.

Thank you guys for sharing your thoughts and experiences. Seems like I will stay away from using Titebond Hide Glue for bracing a guitar top. I occasionally have used it for other things in the past few years, but obviously I have no long term experience, and I'm speaking of tenth of years here, as a guitar should survive at least that long.

Yes. Hot hide glue or even Old Brown Glue is 100% better

Luthiers Mercantile sells a glue that they claim dries harder than "normal" yellow glue and may therefore have better sound transfer properties. I can't vouch for the sound transfer part, but it definitely dries harder and has fast tack.

Here's the pitch from their catalog.

Excellent sanding properties. Will not gum up sanding belts like most glues (a problem with FG and others), and soundboards are spared messy sanding residue from the glue
Discreet florescent dye additive allows you to clearly see (in blacklight) “invisible” glue residue that can ruin a finish, saving untold hours spent repairing finishes
Easier than other glues to clean up
Dries harder than other commercial glues (some believe this makes it a better “tone transference medium”)
Excellent hold strength with a variety of exotic woods, including oily woods like Cocobolo (though common sense cleaning and surface preparation should be used on these woods)
Clamps can be removed in 30 minutes, even in warm temperatures (though it’s best to wait an hour or longer); you can begin machine sanding (which introduces heat) in as little as 90 minutes if you are in a pinch for time
Repairable; joints separate at around 190 degrees (about the same as FG) but more heat resistant at lower temperatures
Non-toxic, environmentally friendly

I've given up on fish glue and now use LMI's "Yellow Instrument Glue" exclusively -- https://www.lmii.com/glue/2957-lmi-y...glue-8-oz.html
It does just what LMI says.

I used Titebond liquid hide glue on 2 mandolins around 1995. Both are still going fine as far as I know. I now use LMI's yellow instrument glue, and as already said it does just what LMI says. However, for repairs of instruments glued with hide glue I use hot hide glue from a batch I got from LMI many years ago before it became a prohibited import. The local stuff stinks real bad and I can't stand the smell.

I've been using Titebond Liquid Hide Glue, on mine and customers instruments, for years and have never had a problem. I recently had to remove the back of a guitar, that I had repaired about 4 years before, and I assure you, the glue was not failing or weakening. The only "trick" I use is to load the parts up heavily with the glue and get lots of squeeze out, and clamp it for at least 3 or 4 hours. It requires more cleanup, but insures total coverage, particularly gluing to kerfed linings. It cleans up easily with a warm, damp cloth.