Bose S1 Pro gain staging issues with T1 and direct Sennheiser e935
 

I had an outdoor gig tonight and hoped to use my S1 for two vocals and acoustic guitar. Unfortunately, I didn't have a stereo trs 1/4" cable and I brought the wrong adapter (xlr female to trs 1/4"), so I had to run an unbalanced guitar cable from the T1 to the S1. Tomorrow I will have a balanced cable to run between the two.

Running the T1 like I do with my L1M2 really overloaded the input of the S1 channel set to off. It was near impossible to get a clean sound with decent volume out of the S1. I tried lowering the output on the T1 and then increasing the volume on the S1, but it was really difficult to get the gain staging right.

I tried running only my vocal and guitar through the T1 and my singer's vocal (Sennheiser e935) direct to the second channel of the S1 set the mic tonematch. Surprisingly it distorted with the volume set on the line (50%). That really doesn't seem right at all. Is it?

Eventually what I did was turn the volume on the S1 down quite a bit (T1 too) and ran a line out from the S1 to my JBL Eon One which I brought as an insurance policy. The two worked well together, but I'd like to do some of these gigs with just the S1.

Would the balanced cable help in this situation?

Is it unusual for a mic plugged directly into the S1 to distort with volume at 50% (green light)?

I had the bass set on my acoustic (Turner Renaissance RS6 using the matching tonematch) set negative, and it still farted out the S1. While the S1 can produce a lot of bass, the guitar seems to much for it. Perhaps this is why the built in guitar tone match REALLY cuts the low end for the guitar?

Would my Mackie mixer with XLR output be a better match for the S1?

Any other tips?

Thank you

I have no experience with just about everything you tried equipment wise other than the Bose S1, so not sure about that. But I can say I've tried several mics direct into the S1 with no problems. Though no Sennheisers.

Have you used your S1 with an external mixer?

Running a mic straight into the S1, how loud can you make the volume control without distortion?

Hi David,
I was directed to this article when I posted something similar on the Bose forum.

http://toonz.ca/bose/wiki/index.php?...ions_to_S1_Pro

I see it may be you that were asking a similar question on that forum. Sorry if my answer is redundant. It does mention in this article thegain is higher with a TRS cable.

I use my S1 with a TC Helicon Play Acoustic. It seems to work best with the main output volume at 50%-60% and the volume on the S1 higher (as I need).

I use the same mic. I haven’t had the issue with distortion when connecting direct. One issue is the light to show overload is on the back of the unit. Hard to hear and see the light at the same time. Is the light turning to red when you use the 935 direct?

Sorry to hear you are having issues. Only thing I can add is that I use the e935 mic with my S1 and have not experienced any of the issues you are having. Good luck.

T1?
 

Not much help here, but pardon my ignorance, I'm curious about your "Bose S1 Pro gain staging issues with T1"

I'm not quite sure by that "T1"...................Do you mean Bose T1 Tonematch?

Sorry, and thanks for anyone who can clarify that :)

Yes, the Bose T1 Tonematch mixer.

I have a smaller gig today, provided the weather forecast remains the same and we play indoors. I'll leave the Eon One in the car and really try to make the S1 work unless we play outdoors. I have the right adapter to use an XLR cable from the T1 to the S1. I hope that helps.

Bose S1 Pro gain staging issues with T1 and direct Sennheiser e935
 

There are two common level ranges in XLR format: mic level and line level. Your T1 mixer output level is line level. Your S1 XLR level is mic level. What you need is a inline XLR pad in the range of somewhere around 30-40db. Yes, the levels are way to hot otherwise. It will look something like this:

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...0323ca078c.jpg

According to Bose, I will do better with a balanced cable and it doesn't matter whether it's line or mic level as shown below. Still doesn't explain the Sennheiser e935 distorting the S1 plugged in directly with the tonematch set to mic.

Combo Inputs
S1 Pro Channels 1 and 2 have combo inputs that accept
XLR (balanced mono)
Microphone or Line-Level inputs
1/4 inch (6 mm) Tip-Ring-Sleeve connection (balanced mono)
Line-Level inputs
1/4 inch (6 mm) Tip-Sleeve connection (unbalanced mono)
Line-Level inputs and instruments (e.g. guitars, keyboards, guitar processors, loopers)
When using a mixer should I use the XLR or 1/4 inch inputs?
When the S1 Pro Channel input lights hit red or you hear distortion, the signal is clipping and you've reached the maximum usable volume. With a mixer, if the XLR outputs are line-level and the 1/4 inch Tip-Ring-Sleeve outputs are line-level, it won't matter which type of cable you use. They'll both get the job done, although the volume control setting will be lower with the XLR connection. That doesn't indicate more headroom. The maximum usable volume is the same either way.

My initial use of the S1 was with a mixer - everything into the mixer (2 vocals and 1 guitar) with no issues.

Then we went to the Boss VE-8 with guitar and one mic into that, and that into channel 1 with the second mic straight into channel 2 of the S1.

I can dial up the mic straight in to about 3/4s with no distortion. I've never got any louder though just because I've never had to.

When I did my outside demos alone and A/B against the QSC (see links below) I played them quite loud with no distortion.

I did notice that the bass would bet quite flabby at high volumes on the Bose and I would dial back the bass almost all the way at high levels and then it would sound fine, relatively speaking.

If you click on the links below in my sig line to the review page there are a few to some demo videos I did with the Bose using both the mixer initially and then the Boss VE-8 which is what we use now.

It does not distort at that level.

Are you tone matching in both the T1 and the S1 or disabling tone match in the S1? The latter would be the way to go.

Tone match gives all kinds of artifacts at times. As crowds gather it sounds different then if they disperse.

1) It did distort at that level. I'm going to retest over the weekend.

2) I disabled the tonematch on the S1 when plugging in the T1.

3) This wasn't an issue either night.

The inline pad will let you use the S1 volume control at a range where tiny adjustments in level don’t make enormous changes in volume.

It is interesting that Bose told you that the S1 inputs are designed to handle both line and mic level signals though. I’ll give it another try.

I asked about this and they clarified their wiki for me. The xlr is mic level the 1/4" trs input is line level, so I should use a regular stereo cable between the T1 and the S1. It's the 1 combo I hadn't tried yet. I was able to get decent enough sound indoors last night running vocal mics through the T1 and my guitar direct into the S1. I'll use it next on Tuesday for a low volume solo gig at The James Cancer Hospital so I'll plug everything in directly and volume has to be very low so it will be a different kind of test.