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BOSS BR-600 or Micro BR?

All the talk about the ZOOM H4 has attracted my interest in recording. I have been looking at the Boss BR-600 and Micro BR as possible alternatives to the ZOOM. Anyone have expereince with either of them or a comparison to the Zoom.

I've messed around in the store with a BR-600 and I own a Micro BR. Neither is really a substitute for the other. While the Micro BR has a 4-track recording capability it is mainly a highly portable practice recorder with some ability to build up multitrack recordings if needed. The BR-600 isn't nearly as portable or convenient for practice recording but is a quite capable small multitrack device (records only two tracks as once of course) that also happens to be in a small package with built-in microphones.

Use the Micro BR if you want to capture quickie single-channel audio in real time using the built-in mic and to provide slowed down playback and/or guitar effects when you're practicing. Use the BR-600 if you want to hook up external microphones and combine several different instruments or voices into a finished track of good quality. No phantom power on either one but the BR-600 will accept TRS balanced microphones whereas the Micro BR will not.

The Zoom H4 is the best stereo field recorder out there when you consider the quality of the built-in microphones and its ability to provide 24V or 48V phantom power for professional microphones.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ITArchitect (Post 1053073)

Hi ITA...
The Edirol 09 would be a better unit to compare with the Zoom H4. It is similar size, function and quality. I have heard recordings made with it, and it is a comparable unit. I have seen all units listed, have not played with all of them yet.

It is also $100 more, includes fewer accessories (like the tripod mount), and less features (is not a computer interface).

It really begs the question, what do you expect to accomplish with a field recorder. If all you are doing is pulling down practice samples, and just transfer them to computer or burn CDrs easily, then any of them will work.

If you want user selectable input, phantom power, XLR & 1/4'' inputs, line level out as well as headphone out, then your options narrow considerably.

Hope you find the unit of your dreams...

Quote:

Originally Posted by ljguitar (Post 1053273)

It really begs the question, what do you expect to accomplish with a field recorder.

That is the dilemna. I think what I want ia a recorder that can do the field job for rehearsals but also function well for making a few amateur home recordings of my own playing. Over time, I think the home recording is more important to me. I don't know much about recording, but for the home use I expect I will want to use multiple tracks and manipulate the content, adding drums etc. I guess the issue is whether any of these units are versatile enough for both purposes. The Zoom is clearly ideal for my rehearsals, but it may be too limited to do the home work. I certainly value your opinion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ITArchitect (Post 1053446)

...The Zoom is clearly ideal for my rehearsals, but it may be too limited to do the home work. I certainly value your opinion.

Hi ITA...
I think the Zoom H4 is a great field recorder that I could live with as a computer interface unit for small to intermediate projects...especially with the phantom power functions and ability to use it with Cubase's LE software.

It's a lot like a mid-line guitar that one may decide to keep while upgrading to a better model as their main guitar.

The other units you listed are more limited either by lack of functions, or lack of flexibility or speed of editing. Sometimes it's not features that are lacking, but how easily accessed features are. I have a small studio, and could never limit myself to a stand alone recorder as small as the BR-600. Not fast nor flexible enough.

On the other hand, I don't want anything as big and elaborate in my lesson area. The H4 is perfect to navigate twixt both arenas.

I can attach pro mics and use it as a remote semi-pro quality recorder, or I can just point-and-shoot with it on a camera tripod, recording exercises and examples for students to make them a CDr to take home.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ITArchitect (Post 1053446)

I will want to use multiple tracks and manipulate the content, adding drums etc.
The Zoom is clearly ideal for my rehearsals, but it may be too limited to do the home work. I certainly value your opinion.

Hi
I recommend a Zoom mrs8 .You can easily create your own patterns.
Using the bounce function, you can record more than 8 tracks, without downgrading the quality of the sound.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brent Hutto (Post 1053183)

The Zoom H4 is the best stereo field recorder out there when you consider the quality of the built-in microphones and its ability to provide 24V or 48V phantom power for professional microphones.

The Best stereo field recorder out there.....is the Sony PCM-D1.

http://aes.harmony-central.com/119AE...PR/PCM-D1.html

However, when you consider the very large price gap between the Zoom and the Sony, I think it's possible to consider the Zoom the 'Best-Value'....if you're on a budget. The Sony is a 'pro-audio' piece, and built like one. The Zoom offers obviously decent performance for a very reasonable price.

But, there's quite a big difference between the units....and if you handle them both, you'll know what I mean.

Still....I think the Zoom H4 is a very cool recorder, that does a lot of great things at a very affordable price. The Sony just takes the concept of a field-recorder, one step further.

Quote:

Originally Posted by utah (Post 1054817)

...However, when you consider the very large price gap between the Zoom and the Sony, I think it's possible to consider the Zoom the 'Best-Value'....if you're on a budget.
...Still....I think the Zoom H4 is a very cool recorder, that does a lot of great things at a very affordable price. The Sony just takes the concept of a field-recorder, one step further.

Hi Utah...
Doug Young sent me a link the other day demoing a videography field recording unit that is even more sophisticated as a field recorder than the Sony (and over $3000) which uses Sony video camera batteries to power it for over 6 hours a pop, and includes every connector common to the industry, and makes the Sony PCM-D1 look pretty anemic. It's about the size of a paperback book, and he'd used it for a video interview to handle the audio.

If a person did mobile recording for a living there are several really high end units which are basically professional grade analog to digital convertors with pro level preamps included in a box. None of the high end have built in mics - they assume the person doing the recording prefers to choose their weapons.

Back to the topic
That said, the Zoom H4 is not the first consumer grade portable recorder. I have an older Korg (Toneworks) 4 track recorder, and Edirol started with the 01.

But the H4 is the first with so many upgraded features (XLR, Phantom, X/Y mics, and audio interface etc) in a great sounding package. The Sony PCM-D1 is a pro-level unit whereas the Zoom is more prosumer - but for the $1300 difference in price, the Zoom does quite nicely.

In fact, the results using external condenser mics are competitive with recordings made with the Sony. So are recordings made with the Edirol 09, and the Marantz field recording units as well.

But as we know, usually someone comes out with a definitive unit that combines features, price and performance that catches the hearts and wallets of the players. The Zoom H4 (in contrast to others out there) is one of the simplest, quickest and most intuitive units I've ever played with. Glad it's in my practice/teaching purview.

Now for a little change of pace...
One use I've not seen discussed here is the combination of separately recorded audio to later import and layer over digital video of bands, singers etc. I had the digital audio recording (direct to CDr recording from the sound board) of a memorial service which I layered over the video shot by an inexpensive digital video camera, and they synced up perfectly in iMovie, and provided much better sound than the camera captured.

I think the Zoom H4 (or any other digital recorder) could make this pretty easy. Even a 128kbps mp3 recording will exceed the quality of the built in mic of a typical family video camera - whereas the video is usually great. Many cheap cameras don't have a separate mic input, or the board is too far away to consider plugging it in. Professional video is often shot separately from the video recording and later layered.

Since you mentioned that home recording is important to you, I thought I'd weigh in on what is working well for me. I've tried Vegas, Audition, and Acid on various laptops with a Tascam usb interface and always had latency problems. I had access to a Korg D-1600 for a while that worked well but editing was a pain. I recently purchased the Boss BR-600 and I like it a lot. Surprisingly capable feature set in such a tiny package. I pull the CF card out, stick it in my laptop, use the Roland BR convert program (free download on Roland site) to very quickly and easily move tracks to my laptop and edit and rubber band mix with an old copy of Vegas. Makes a nice workflow for me. And very cheap. I'll post a review of the BR-600 here if there is interest.

I would be very interested in the BR600 review. It is on my short list, but I have been told here and by Sweetwater that it does not record in uncompressed format and that makes the H4 slightly more attractive for me. The H4 on the other hand apparently has a hardware glitch that persuades me to wait. I think the glitch would not bother me for my uses, but given a choice it would be nice to have one with the fix in it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ITArchitect (Post 1070404)

Hi ITA...
What glitch would that be?

Any word about "the glitch"?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ljguitar (Post 1070444)

Hi ITA...
What glitch would that be?

There is apparently a problem that occurs when recording on battery at high input gain levels with low input. It manifests itself as a beeping sound that coincides with a blinking LED. Users report that the manufacturer has acknowledged it. Most users don't feel that it impacts them. If you google [zoom h4 beeping] you will get several hundred hits.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wingman (Post 1070238)

I'll post a review of the BR-600 here if there is interest.

Looking forward to this. I am especially interested in the uncompressed recording issue. Is it true that it only records in compressed formats?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ITArchitect (Post 1071204)

Hi ITA...
I record with high input gain all the time, and leave huge sections of silence and have never encountered the ''beeping'' and cannot reproduce it. Perhaps it is a resolved issue. Interestingly, many of those google hits you site cannot reproduce it either.

I'm not declaring the H4 - or any other piece of equipment - flawless. But the issue you site has never emerged with the users from this group and there are quite a bunch of us using the H4s.

If we don't trust any piece of equipment till it is flawless, we will have quite a wait. I own pro studio equipment that we do work-arounds with, because they have flaws - or design issues. So what do we do? Work around the known and discovered issues and make good recordings.

Edit...I tracked the google threads...
By the way, the specific references to H4 and the purported beep run out before 15 posts of the google query. There are some references and speculation and even a couple samples (which I cannot hear the beeps on), but mostly it's people saying they cannot reproduce the beeps.