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-   -   Build Thread: Tahoe Guitar Co. 00-12 (Mahogany/Carpathian) (https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=420930)

OddManOut 02-28-2016 06:50 PM

Build Thread: Tahoe Guitar Co. 00-12 (Mahogany/Carpathian)
 
Here is a build thread for my latest from Larry Nair of Tahoe Guitar Co.. It will be a 00-12 in mahogany and Carpathian Spruce. I will keep the thread updated as pictures roll in.

Today we completed the material selection save the final back and sides. I posted a few pics of the materials. We're waiting for delivery of a set of Sinker Mahogany (first pic). If we reject it, we have picked an alternate set (second pic). I decided to go with herringbone top purfling rather than the flitch purfle shown. EDIT: I have decided to go with rosewood binding rather than the curly walnut shown.

Tahoe Guitar Co.
Model: S-12 (00-12)
Top: Carpathian Spruce
Back/Sides: Honduran Mahogany
Binding: Rosewood
Top Purfle: Herringbone
Neck: Curly Maple/Walnut/Curly Maple five-piece
Bracing: Adirondack Spruce
Rosette: African Blackwood
Bridge: Ebony Pyramid
Fingerboard: Macassar Ebony
Tuners: TBA
Paddle Head w/ Ebony Plate
Scale: 24.9"
Nut: 1 3/4"
Saddle: 2 1/4"

The sinker mahogany set. We shall see if it is a good as it looks.
http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...pselc6jdue.jpg


The alternate mahogany set. More vanilla in appearance (though not wet with naptha), but a nice set.
http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psqj9dprl6.jpg

Binding against mahogany.
http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psnmzyh1wy.jpg

Binding and blackwood rosette with the top.
http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psiumll4xf.jpg

The maple neck woods.
http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psrubxn2cl.jpg

Fingerboard, head plate, the pearl logo, and the curly walnut for the tail wedge and heel cap.

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...pst3xpufx3.jpg


I realize I didn't snap a full pic of the top. Here is the best I have. It is a light, stiff, nicely quartered, and ringy set of Carpathian Spruce.

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...pssjk85wfv.jpg

Steve Kinnaird 02-29-2016 11:21 AM

Hi, OMO, did you take a decision re. the mahogany?
Our experience with sinker mahogany (two guitars so far) is that it is a bit denser than mahogany being cut now. Which stands to reason, it comes from older trees, and whatever mineral leach has occurred under water only adds to that.
What you have shown so far promises to be a beauty! Keep us posted.

Steve

OddManOut 02-29-2016 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Kinnaird (Post 4847254)
Hi, OMO, did you take a decision re. the mahogany?
Our experience with sinker mahogany (two guitars so far) is that it is a bit denser than mahogany being cut now. Which stands to reason, it comes from older trees, and whatever mineral leach has occurred under water only adds to that.
What you have shown so far promises to be a beauty! Keep us posted.

Steve

Thanks, Steve!

The sinker mahogany set is a keeper! It is nicely quartered, has nice ribbons and subtle beeswing curl throughout. Taps nicer than most mahogany I've tapped. It is not as red as in the seller's pic, but still a nice mahogany hue.

I also got a proper pic of the top, with and without the bracing pattern (those tone bars will be reversed).

First design note: The x-braces will be rotated in to increase their intersection with the pyramid bridge. The x junction will not be moved.

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...pscdsixozh.jpg

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psy6vjcz4q.jpg

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psahldmo0c.jpg

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psjatf1xrr.jpg

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psp1gqxcce.jpg

Steve Kinnaird 02-29-2016 08:56 PM

Oh yeah, that's really nice. I think you'll be happy with that choice.
And what a cool story you have about the back/sides!

Steve

OddManOut 03-09-2016 10:16 PM

Neck Parts/Block
 
Some pics have come in from Larry. Here Larry has milled the neck lams. The primary pieces are very flamed Big Leaf Maple. The thin dark lams are Black Walnut and a middle lam of hard eastern maple of some sort.

Also shown is the neck block being stamped. "S12" indicates a 12-fret Spooner model. 'Spooner' is a summit east of Lake Tahoe above Carson City, and has two 'O's. Hence "double oh". 'C' is Carpathian Spruce and 'M' is Mahogany. This guitar is #144.


http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psi9bsbkdb.jpg

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psmxyz2ksd.jpg

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psk8mudjjp.jpg

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psmemhcib2.jpg



http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psym5xsvt4.jpg

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psocavbhbs.jpg

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psrydd5a1d.jpg

OddManOut 03-09-2016 10:36 PM

Brace Trace
 
Larry traced the bracing pattern from a 1902 Martin 00-12 gut string. The initial tracings were done on tracing paper, then transferred to yellow card stock. The bracing design was modified by narrowing the X-brace without moving the x junction (compare the intersection with the bridge and the lengths of the sound hole strips on the two patterns), and generally beefing up the braces to accommodate steel strings. The back brace pattern is also shown.

A cool note on the bridge plate wood: Local Nevada wood! Because Nevada is known for tonewood... :eek: Of late, Larry has been using Black Locust for most of his bridge plates, but his stock was almost gone. About 18 months ago I overheard a conversation in which a colleague mentioned removing a mature Black Locust tree from their land in Douglas County. To make a long story short, I got a section of the main trunk, and Larry milled it into bridge plate stock. He prefers to use rift sawn stock to prevent grain line cracking in the plates. Larry will cut out the knots and use only clear wood.

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psp1gqxcce.jpg

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psipcpd0nr.jpg

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psd9lmxief.jpg

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psgzkbh6cu.jpg


http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psbjlzryhp.jpg


http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...pstprdpoes.jpg

Steve Kinnaird 03-09-2016 10:39 PM

Really? You're number 144?
That's just gross.

OddManOut 03-09-2016 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Kinnaird (Post 4859003)
Really? You're number 144?
That's just gross.


Why? :confused::confused: I assume some bit of humor, cleverness, or clever humor has been lost on me. ;)

Steve Kinnaird 03-10-2016 12:44 AM

Ooh, sorry. Should have used a smilie.
144=1 gross.
Silly pun...failed attempt at humor...
But actually 144 is a cool number to own.

Steve

OddManOut 03-10-2016 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Kinnaird (Post 4859059)
Ooh, sorry. Should have used a smilie.
144=1 gross.
Silly pun...failed attempt at humor...
But actually 144 is a cool number to own.

Steve


Got it! No worries at all. :)

After posting my question about your comment on 144, I dozed off on the couch. I popped awake an hour later with "144 = 1 gross" in my head. I guess it is a bit of an esoteric term anymore. I had been thinking "12 squared is 144 and it is a 12-fretter...is that what he means?" :wild:

FantasticMrFox 03-10-2016 06:53 AM

If it makes you feel better, I giggled.

iim7V7IM7 03-10-2016 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OddManOut (Post 4859174)
Got it! No worries at all. :)

After posting my question about your comment on 144, I dozed off on the couch. I popped awake an hour later with "144 = 1 gross" in my head. I guess it is a bit of an esoteric term anymore. I had been thinking "12 squared is 144 and it is a 12-fretter...is that what he means?" :wild:

I am not even from Texas and I found Steve's quip hysterical...:)

A "gross = 144" is easy, figuring out what song G7-C9-Edim-B9-B7b13-E7-E9 beneath your avatar is hard. At first, I thought it might be it might be the music to the verse from the lyrics in your signature line, but alas it is not. That is C#m11-Bm11-Gmaj7-F#m11-Bm7-D/G-E/A.

Steve Kinnaird 03-10-2016 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iim7V7IM7 (Post 4859204)

A "gross = 144" is easy, figuring out what song G7-C9-Edim-B9-B7b13-E7-E9 beneath your avatar is hard. At first, I thought it might be it might be the music to the verse from the lyrics in your signature line, but alas it is not. That is C#m11-Bm11-Gmaj7-F#m11-Bm7-D/G-E/A.

A song? Really? I thought that was the formula for classic Coke...
Can't keep up with you guys!

Steve

OddManOut 03-10-2016 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iim7V7IM7 (Post 4859204)
I am not even from Texas and I found Steve's quip hysterical...:)

A "gross = 144" is easy, figuring out what song G7-C9-Edim-B9-B7b13-E7-E9 beneath your avatar is hard. At first, I thought it might be it might be the music to the verse from the lyrics in your signature line, but alas it is not. That is C#m11-Bm11-Gmaj7-F#m11-Bm7-D/G-E/A.


LOL. I feel a bit dense in my failure to grasp Steve's pun. *duh* I guess I didn't "score" any points on that one. ;)

That chord sequence is not from a song. It was a sequence I came up with many years ago using the high G note as a harmonic link to modulate down three half steps. PM sent.

Dang it...I hijacked my own thread! :)

OddManOut 03-10-2016 11:03 PM

Bending: Sides
 
In this sequence the sides are being bent over the 00-12 mold. Larry uses a heat blanket and a spot of water. Once bent, the sides are placed in a cooling jig which preserves their shape while they cool.


The first bend is the waist. The side is then flipped and the bend placed concave up in the waist of the mold.

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps3vnorpyb.jpg

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps3u3ijlcj.jpg


Now the sides are bent into shape. Some of the wood figure is visible.
http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psyo4wejcc.jpg


http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psfatbtldg.jpg

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psxnd8jzxv.jpg

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...pslttjceiq.jpg


And into the cooling jig...

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...pso4amqk8i.jpg

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psme0utxax.jpg

OddManOut 03-10-2016 11:11 PM

Bending: Binding, Purfling
 
Now the binding and purfling are bent and placed in the cooling jig. I decided to go with EIR binding for a more subtle look. The curly Claro Walnut binding will be saved for a future project. My name is Jim, and I'm an addict... ;)


http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psmj7qewah.jpg

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psoye1k7gx.jpg

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psum9h1lcj.jpg

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps9xmjugfl.jpg

OddManOut 03-14-2016 01:30 PM

Joining the Top
 
A bunch of pics have rolled in from the Tahoe Guitar Co.. Several posts follow.

Here Larry is joining the Carpathian Spruce top using a nail press. This top was a bit thin on the edges to be joined. Larry used brown tape and some business cards to apply extra downward pressure to minimize any vertical unevenness along the seam. Normally a very small bit of unevenness might exist, but is sanded off when the top is thicknessed. Larry is being extra careful due to the thin edges for the joint.

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psdmzvjxxh.jpg

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps5mso5b4y.jpg

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psmtc7gvde.jpg

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psaz3ewhvp.jpg

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psv7wdhwgx.jpg

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...pspi3d5iz2.jpg

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psqjbrmjbu.jpg

OddManOut 03-14-2016 01:39 PM

Joining the Back
 
Larry joins the two halves of the Sinker Mahogany back.

One noteworthy detail here is the center stripe. I wanted something subtle, and a pinstripe of EIR was the ticket. We considered ebony (ala a Collings 1-series), but the EIR will be a better match to the binding and heelcap. So a piece of EIR binding was crosscut, and placed "edge-on" (is that a term?) between the back plates.

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psvr3oubvu.jpg

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psejjvotof.jpg

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psd7sopiyi.jpg

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psedl0xtph.jpg

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psnnivizsg.jpg

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psxgvq8r3z.jpg

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psla2jr77z.jpg

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psgmxficjm.jpg

OddManOut 03-14-2016 01:55 PM

Blocking the Sides
 
The sides are joined with the tail block and the neck block. At this point Larry builds an inside mold to support the joined sides until they are kerfed. http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...pselwfdxja.jpg

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psf8lncp9s.jpg

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...pszj91nhtb.jpg

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psullxdddt.jpg

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psclfofwqf.jpg

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps4ta7qxv6.jpg

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...pswn9zztjz.jpg

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...pszf4xdkr8.jpg

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...pswnizbs01.jpg

OddManOut 03-14-2016 01:57 PM

Blocking the Sides 2
 
The blocking continues.

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...pspftcaetv.jpg

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psxjpky9hu.jpg

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psmqpmnomq.jpg

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...pszulgbqf6.jpg

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psxgkac5q4.jpg

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps3iqntrte.jpg

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psntbo6j5o.jpg

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psqsazicsy.jpg

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psx9dudpc7.jpg

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psshixjwut.jpg

OddManOut 03-14-2016 02:04 PM

Blocking the Sides 3
 
Finally, the inner mold is completed.

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psnj2xtldg.jpg


http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psbrdtveb9.jpg


We considered using this piece of cardboard for the top, but it didn't tap very well. Sounded like cardboard... :D
http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psxerlimx7.jpg

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psfixbz8uu.jpg


That's the proper place for the cardboard...
http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps7qmd82si.jpg

OddManOut 03-14-2016 08:36 PM

Profiling The Back and Top, Thicknessing
 
Having allowed the glue to cure, the joined back and top are now profiled to slightly larger than the outline of the guitar.

The top is thicknessed..a rather critical factor in the tone of the guitar. ;)

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...pszz5rp6dn.jpg

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...pssoj63vxm.jpg

Thicknessing the top.

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psekokbqrq.jpg

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psvm3qnadi.jpg

Steve Kinnaird 03-14-2016 09:41 PM

Thanks for the pics. It's always fascinating to see someone else's approach to building. He's making good time!

Steve

OddManOut 03-15-2016 09:19 PM

Rosette
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Kinnaird (Post 4864783)
Thanks for the pics. It's always fascinating to see someone else's approach to building. He's making good time!

Steve

You're quite welcome. Thanks for following this thread. It seems every luthier has their methods and madnesses.

Larry is on a bit of a mission. He is building one (EIR/Adi dread-bluegrass machine) in tandem with mine and he wants it done for a local show in June.

Here Larry inlays the Blackwood rosette. Keeping things simple on the design with simple BWB purfling on the wood rosette and an inner BWB purfling ring.

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psypanoosi.jpg

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psop64xdty.jpg

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psqox3gysl.jpg

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps5fktiw5r.jpg

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps55fhcazd.jpg

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps6ykdoksq.jpg

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psqule9jpt.jpg


The Luthier's Squall has ripped through Larrys' shop...
http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps5zwggfjd.jpg

OddManOut 03-16-2016 07:38 AM

Milling The Braces
 
Larry mills the braces for the top and back from Red Spruce brace stock.


All the brace stock.
http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psasekezrm.jpg


The top brace stock with profile tracings atop the top pattern.
http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...pstnikl8s0.jpg


The back brace stock with profile tracings atop the back pattern.
http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psqdqgochr.jpg


The Grizzly band saw roars to life...let the fun begin!
http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psjgp073gp.jpg


http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psxod2d4sv.jpg


Meet the braces...the right most pile is the transverse brace and the back braces. The left most pile is the X and the tone bars. The liitle guys are the fingers.
http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psclbel9r2.jpg


A spot of sanding to width.
http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...pszyjizjpk.jpg


Rough back braces.
http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psjvk7zquw.jpg


Rough top braces. That bridge plate stock is locally-grown Black Locust. The thin piece at the top will be sound hole strips. The larger piece at the top will become two flat trapezoidal braces between the neck block and the transverse brace (replacing the traditional popsicle brace).
http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psf4drvnbo.jpg

OddManOut 03-16-2016 07:46 AM

Kerfing
 
The mahogany kerfing is bent on the 00-12 mold, and glued up.

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...pshwughzdk.jpg

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psicgwh05f.jpg


It's looking like this collection of woody goodies might become a guitar. :up:
http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...pss8uk1vyt.jpg

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...pss8ttenur.jpg


"Nurse...remove those clamps!"
http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps7rvnogmm.jpg

OddManOut 03-19-2016 08:10 AM

Side Profile 1
 
Larry is in his home studio putting the finishing touches on his CD. He'll be back in the shop soon. In the meantime, I have some pics of a more nuts-and-bolts process.

This is the first 00-12 Larry has built, so he needs a side profile template. Making one requires a bit of layout due to the radiused profile of the sides.

The goal here it to profile the unbent sides so that the guitar has the proper depth. The challenge is twofold: The profile curve has a 20' radius and this radiused curve is set up on the length of the body. i.e There are two scales on which this must be done.

For the purposes of this discussion, I will refer to the two scales as follows:

Side Length: the actual length of the side is 26";

Body Length: The body is (if I recall) 19.5" long.

To create a profile pattern, Larry must make depth measurements along the side length, translate to the body length to mark the depth measurements, then translate them back to the side length.

How about a few pics?

The radius curve template and tracing-based on body length.

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...pskrc4cvmh.jpg

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psf2kuvo97.jpg

Sample points at one inch intervals along the side length. The depth of the guitar will be measured at each of these points.

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...pskg8ukzw9.jpg



Translating the points to the body length scale.
http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps49tkrfxb.jpg


The points are closer together in the bends of the sides, more spread out in the straighter sections.

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psbk42qxsj.jpg

The depths are then marked off from the points along the body length, starting at the radius curve. The depths are then translated back to the one inch increments on the (unbent) side length scale, along what will become the side profile template.

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psffcxozoy.jpg

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psvdewgmer.jpg

The depths are marked off. The points on this scale are unevenly-spaced points along the body length scale. This the only way Larry can use the 20' radius curve as one endpoint for each of the depth markings. Kinda tricky...

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psvfqsixmk.jpg

Now we're back on the side length scale, translating those depths to the evenly-spaced marks at one inch intervals. This piece of card stock will become the actual side template.
http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psoqmjg3y4.jpg

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psjrbe1bsy.jpg

OddManOut 03-19-2016 08:18 AM

Side Profile 2
 
With the proper depths marked off, the profile curve is traced along the side profile template.

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...pslqe1pojo.jpg

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psjziwaowt.jpg


The template is then cut out along that curve.

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psqssmwkwc.jpg

The profile curve is traced onto the sides, and the sides cut to the proper profile.

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...pslvncdfpd.jpg

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps2lbqfmyl.jpg

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psw3fqwrb0.jpg

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/u...psakubyrak.jpg

TomB'sox 03-19-2016 12:21 PM

Well that last part was beyond me, except he made a perfect template with a lot of measurements and then cut the sides out!!!!! hahaha

I have a much more basic question please, what is the point of the cardboard insert into the sides, I have not see anyone do that before? I thought maybe to help maintain shape, but then I did not think the cardboard would be strong enough to really do that?

Then I remembered the videos from the last builds you guys did, and thought maybe the cardboard was after too much paint thinner fumes or something ;););)

OddManOut 03-19-2016 02:38 PM

Tricky, I know. The key thing is the depth measurements have to be taken along the actual edge length of the side, but marked off from the radius template set along the body length. It took me awhile to get it.

If by "insert" you mean the template or pattern, it simply allows Larry to trace the edge profile which will give the desired radius when the sides are bent. The pattern doesn't serve as a physical guide for the cut itself. The is Larry's good eye and steady hand. :up:


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