Best pickup for 59' J45 CS with adjustable bridge?
 

I have a 59' J45 custom shop with adjustable bridge that I'm looking to amplify (it has the sound of *all* the angels!) I think the options I have are K&K Pure Mini, Baggs M1A, and possibly the Baggs Lyric. I mainly play and sing acoustically by myself, but do go to a few different open mics every couple months. I strum, pick, and do some finger style, just not any of the percusive tapping stuff.

I had a K&K Pure Mini in a 000-15 and it took a lot to make it sound right - a red eye preamp and a 6 band eq through an AER 60/3 (since sold, I might get an L1C or S1 Pro...) The K&K needed a bunch of shaping in the lows and mids. My J45 has twice as much bass as the 000-15 which makes me think that the pure mini might be even more problematic. I don't know if the K&K pure amp might have been a better fit than the red eye and eq I had before (I suspect not.)

I very much like the way the M1A sounds from what I can find on Youtube - moreso than the M80. I don't know if I will like how it probably alters the acoustic tone and adds weight to the guitar, less I remove it when not needed. I'm guessing it'd be hard to put in and take out without removing the strings? I do like that I could maybe get away with not having to ream the end pin for a jack, but that is not a huge concern.

The Lyric is my least favorite sound - but I'm wondering if it would sound decent like the M1A out of the box. In general at the open mics they really prefer to just hand you a cable. Maybe it would be compromise between the other options (doesn't affect acoustic tone, doesn't require outboard eq for decent sound, don't have to removed.)

Maybe there is some other contender? (those old school Bill Lawrence sound hole pickups have caught my eye.) The guitar sounds wonderful mic'd through my KSM137 and through a SM57, but the guys running the open mics aren't going to spend any time tweaking it for me and there is always the decent chance of that dreaded feedback growl or squeal.

https://i.imgur.com/KQu3pUD.jpg

I would suggest a K&K or any non obtrusive pickup, a Tonedexter, and your Red Eye.

I'm split now between doing a permanent K&K or doing the Rare Earth Humbucker on a temporary basis (instead of the M1A - looks a lot easier to take in and out.) I listened to more Lyric reviews and the string noise that it picks up is a deal breaker.

The M1A or M80 would be ideal for plug and play at your open mics as both have onboard pre amps so no fiddly outboard kit to worry about.

I've only played at a couple of open mics and I was using an M1A at the time. It sounded perfectly acceptable in the monitors and I got compliments on how good it sounded out front from other players.

I now use a DiMarzio Black Angel which is a much better sounding pickup imho. However, it's a passive pickup so would probably require you use a preamp/DI for it to sound its best. Not sure if the Fishman RE is active or not??? but worth checking if that's the way you decide to go.

It looks like the RE is active - has two little batteries (or a single lithium one) and has a volume wheel and some kind of eq switch. I have also had the DiMarzio on my radar but the Fishman looks like a tighter package and has a fixed cord if I use it just temporarily (instead of the fragile 1/8" jack.)

Came across this recent demo, sounds pretty good I think (especially in the dreadnought)

https://youtu.be/Bh2_9kkxmOk

I found another video of being able to install the RE without having to loosen strings and what not.

I'm wondering if the adjustable bridge screws/bolts would interfere with installing a K&K, or make it sound weird given their close proximity to the E strings.

I'm just gonna pull the trigger on the RE and see how it goes. To heck with analysis paralysis!

I am happy with the Rare Earth which I reviewed a few days ago:

https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...95&postcount=5

+1 on K&K and a Tonedexter. Accept no substitutes...

I did a 180 on the rare earth and ordered a Bartlett Mic B instead - least intrusive as possible and gives me simple quarter inch jack and can leave it in my guitar case and just clip it on. Should really be enough for open mic I think and probably will work well with an S1 Pro that I'm going to pick up.

This particular 45 just sounds too perfect to mess with - it is the 'one'. I play it constantly and want to use it as much as I can, but decided I wouldn't change anything on it for the world.

On a side note - the more I listened to samples K&K (even with tonedexter) - the less I like it unless it is dual sourced. I think the Baggs and Fishman mags are the way to go.

I like the mag mic combos. The softer it is the more mic I use. At open mics, usually I can use some mic, but occasionally I have to turn it off. When I do my own sound I use plenty of mic. I would be scared to have to use a guitar live with just a mounted mic though.

Let us know how the Bartlett Mic B works out. I would guess that it would be wonderful for recording but feedback prone live at all but the softest levels. Here’s to hoping I am wrong!

It should be here this weekend hopefully along with an S1 pro - if it doesn't work out I'm going for the rare earth or rare earth blend. Will try to post a youtube review :)

I really like the Rare Earth Blend a lot. As compared to my Schertler AG-6/S-Mic, the Blend has a directional mic while the Schertler has an omni. That is why the Blend mic is on a little aimable arm while the S-mic is fixed. You only need to aim a directional mic.

Because of this the blend mic is a little more resistant to feedback. The omni on the Schertler sounds very natural but you can only dial a little in before it feeds back. The REB lets you separate the mic from the pickup with a TRS cable. The AG-6 is designed for both live sound and recording. For live use Schertler recommends the mic be dialed in 10% or less. For recording without a monitor they recommend you turn the mic all the way up. At that point, you don’t hear the pickup but it is there reenforcing the low frequencies without sounding boxy.

I do prefer the Schertler but it was a tough call and I can easily see why someone else might prefer the REB.

If money isn’t an object you might want to check out the Vanden Mimesis Kudos blend. The REB design is licensed to Fishman by Mike Vanden and the Mimesis is designed to also work with an external FPA mic clamped onto the body:

https://vanden.co.uk/pickups/kudos/

Does the mic on the REB stay put? The goose neck on my Fishman Blender was good the first year or two, then would just kinda flop around. I wasn't a big fan of that!

The Mimesis looks cool but I like when the Mic is attached to the pickup as with the REB/Schertler/Duncan

It also has a built-in mic. They are just showing off that an external mic is an option.

Also consider the RE single coil if you end up going back to the soundhole idea. I have one in my gig bag for backup use and really like it. I’ll probably do a permanent install with it in a guitar a some stage. Slides in and out easily without loosening strings just like the other RE’s they are very unobtrusive.

Got the Bartlett Mic. It sounds great but I couldn't get it loud enough before feedback, having the S1 Pro sitting 8 feet away - my guitar is not very loud compared to most. So on to the next.

Thought I'd give an update. Got a Fishman Rare Earth humbucker and it sounds really good, but I'm going to install a K&K after all and hopefully be able to EQ it properly.

The guitar is pretty somber compared to a Martin or J45 standard - probably because of the adjustable bridge. The Fishman acoustically mutes the guitar a bit and makes it sound kinda 'plinky' - I think it is some of the mids that are getting squashed. It's a pretty subtle change but enough to make me want to try the K&K instead.

I'm hoping the K&K won't affect acoustic tone. That said, the Fishman sounds great through my S1 Pro plugged straight in, with no tonematch and a tad less bass and treble. The Fishman low end is really fantastic. I'm going to keep it around for another guitar or maybe let my dad try it in his old Guild D25.

First off J45's are my favorite guitar (I own vintage and reissue) and in my 50's reissue J45, I tried the K&K pure mini, the Lyric, and the Fishman Rare earth Blend, and frankly they all came up short.

The K&K constantly had me battling low mids and when I pulled them out it left the sound lifeless (I own an Empress Para EQ, a Grace Alix, and Felix).

The Lyric had two different frequencies that needed to be pulled from it and a compression artifact I could always hear!!!

The Rare Earth was too magnetic sounding even with the mic.

I eventually put a B-Band XOM 2.2 system in it that rocks but it is more invasive then you would like, and besides, B-band folded.

I would look into the May ultratonic pickup system which may help deal with the woofy K&K sounding pickup http://jamesmayengineering.com/

Here's my latest J45 song...

The utratonic looks pretty cool, but don't think the extra pads would fit on my bridgeplate because of the adj bolts. I'm also considering PUTW #54 with the misi preamp.

Not to be redundant, but you are going to get closer to the true microphone sound of that J45 with a Tonedexter than with any other preamp. I just got a 1957 National 1155, which is a Gibson J45 body with a National Valco neck and just to get it up and amplified fast, I put in a cheap $10 copy of a K&K to see how it would sound through the Tonedexter (I have K&K's in all my other guitars). The Tonedexter provided a wonderful sound, even with the cheap pickup, which was both harsher and lower in level than the K&K's. This is just to demonstrate that (IMHO) the Tonedexter cures all ills.

Does the tonedexter handle cleaning up the mids and boom? Or do you still need EQ on top of that?

I've been through hell and back with all sorts of pickups over the last few years. I just recently stumbled across and eventually purchased a Schatten HFN, a pickup I never heard of until recently, and I'm blown away by the pickup. It's just been redesigned and it sounds very much like a mic. I bought the passive version and it has plenty of output and sounds amazing.

A Tonedexter's purpose (and talent) is to make your acoustic guitar sound very close to the way it sounds when recorded through a microphone (though you can tweak it). So if you like the way your guitar sounds, you should be able to get close to that. Many people confuse the Tonedexter with other preamps, but it is a different animal. Check out Doug Young's demo on Youtube.

Looking at this now, surprised I hadn't seen it before. It does look like it would also be too big to fit in between my adj bridge bolts. Pretty annoying, but I really like how this particular guitar sounds and I think the bridge has a lot to do with it.

If it was too big that would be unfortunate. I did a video at someone else's request comparing the LR Baggs Anthem to the Schatten HFN I'll link it below. I'm certainly no youtuber, but I was praising up this pickup in a different thread and felt obligated to do something.

https://youtu.be/w2hjQgYsTsI

Nice video and nice playing (I like the selection of songs!) - I think I like the anthem more (maybe cause' Gibson) but with audio being from a cellphone mic, who knows for sure.

Thanks for your kind remarks. Those 2 guitars are certainly very different in every way, shape and form. I love them both for different reasons as with the pickups. While I do fully understand every person is different with regards to tone, I personally feel that the Schatten pickup gives a better representation of the natural sound of the guitar. That being said there's absolutely nothing wrong with the Anthem either. The biggest consistent negative remark on the anthem seems to be the pickup output level. Just an FYI the Emerald guitar came with the full anthem system, which I obviously have removed for various reasons. Having used both versions I would certainly recommend the SL version over the full version.

Not to hijack the thread, but I'm just wondering why you'd recommend the SL over the full Anthem. Thanks!

It's no problem at all. First of all, I still recommend the Schatten HFN over any pickup that I ever tried, and I tried lots of the years. Regarding the Anthem, I recommend the SL over the full Anthem for basically 2 reasons: 1) the extra size and weight of that preamp with the full anthem had a pretty significant impact on the unplugged tone of the guitar it was in. That coupled with the UST was just too much for me too live with. 2) the full anthem preamp has more controls (which when I was younger would've thought that to be a good thing) but as it turns out "less is more". The SL is more of a set it and forget type system. Most people adjust the mic level control to full mic and leave it at that than all your left with is volume control. I found with the full Anthem I was constantly tinkering with the adjustments which meant less playing time in the end. I really don't and never will miss having that system again. Hope this helps!

Nobody suggested the Dazzo so far ? Installed properly it gives a much more accurate reproduction of the guitar's acoustic sound and is much less prone to feedback compared to a K&K. I used the K&K for 10 years, before that I used the rare earth blend for about ten years. IMO the Dazzo is an upgrade to them all.
The RedEye is a great tool to run with the Dazzo.
I never really liked the internal mic on the rare earth blend because it is to close to feedback (I love to use 50/50 pickup/mic). The K&K trinity mic is the best considering the price. The best sounding internal mic I used is a DPA 4061 (omni), but it is quite pricey.
I use DAZZO/DPA in several instruments (guitar, bouzouki, Weissenborn) and blend it with a Grace Felix preamp. I only need some HPF on both channels and use a QSC K8 as a personal monitor ( I like it better than the AER amps which I used before - more accurate, less feedback) - best setup I had in thirty years.

I listened to the Tonedexter clips I could find and never really liked them. A true mic is superior.

Coming back to the initial question: mandowill said it all !
But if your pickup has less output I would suggest the internal boost.