More brightness & punch out of cedar-top/hog B&S (STRINGS)
 

Walden GA, lam. hog B&S, solid cedar top. I love the guitar, it's got a nice mellow sound.... but once the strings break in, too mellow. I now wish I had a spruce top for this guitar, I think that's really what my ears are looking for... more volume, punch, and clarity.... BUT since that's not happening, I wondered if some different strings might help a little...

Over the years, I have found that:

1) I really like the way Elixir Nano 12 PB sound, but the tension is a little high for me. Other strings' 12s I have no problems with. But the slightly higher tension on the Elixirs is quite noticeable to me. And 11's sound too thin.

2) I settled on 2 strings for this guitar: Sunbeams and Martin TEs. Both sound great when new, but a bit too mellow after break-in.


I've been down the string road many times, I'm just posting the question to narrow my search.... I actually HATE buying umpteen different strings and then trying them over many days. I saw a post from 2013 where someone said the EJ16 will "add punch and brightness to a quiet guitar", and that's what prompted me to ask the question... alot of new strings have come out since then...

Any recc's?

[I have already tried: (all 12s):
Monels- great on some guitars, but not this one- too mellow esp. after break-in
GHS Bright Bronze- ok
Martin FX XP TEs - they were pretty good, better than Elixirs, tension-wise... actually found them very similar to Sunbeams.
D'Addario EXPs - too long ago, can't remember
Aluminum Bronze- YUCK]

Cleartones are bright IMHO.

If you want brightness, forget about coated strings. None that I have tried offer as much brightness as uncoated versions.

The Martin Eric Claptons are a bit brighter than the standard Martin PBs. The new Authentics are brighter to my ear.

Going to a slightly lighter gauge may help.

Your problem does not come up very often. At least I don't see it much on AGF. Too much brightness, another story.

In general, 80/20s might be what you need.

If you have not tried one, a Tusq saddle may be the answer. To my ears, Tusq ups the brightness.

Good luck.

Not to go tangent on the conversation, but what about nut, bridge and pin material... at least the bridge and pins are pretty easy to swap out without being too high $ of a mod.

My thinking is another material could impact the sound quite a bit, maybe more than string choice.. although I'm not the right person to say which is best...

I've read tons of threads over the years on pins.... it's a crapshoot, with most people saying they make little difference. The nut on this guitar is plastic, and the saddle is already Tusq.

And I already have relatively higher action, so there's no more volume or punch coming from raising it.

It's Walden's copy of the Taylor 514ce, but with lam. hog B&S. It's a VERY light guitar. (see signature)

Frankly, even strings don't make a huge difference... especially after break-in... a guitar sounds like what it sounds like. Which is fine, but I'm not in the market for a new acoustic right now, so was looking to maybe get a LITTLE help from some different strings...

If you play with a pick experiment with material and gauges. I get a large tonal difference from picks, going from thick to thin really increases brightness. I like 1.0 or .88 in Ultex and going down to a .60 is much brighter. Ultex and Primetone have a strong clear tone, nylon is warmer and duller, these are generalizations.

Paddy is correct about coated strings being warmer then noncoated. Try some Daddario 80/20 lights, 12s are brighter than 13s. Good luck

I use Ultex... on this guitar, they are perfect. My Red Bear is a little warmer, and the BC MUCH warmer. The Ultex helps bring out the trebles.

IDK about all coated strings, but I have always heard Elixirs (Nanos) as bright, even when compared to uncoated strings. As I said, I love Elixirs on this guitar, but the slightly higher tension puts me off.

If there is one type of string I would recommend for a cedar topped guitar... it would be GHS Contact Core Bright Bronze strings (not their standard Bright Bronze). I rotate a lot of different strings on and off of my Taylor GS7 with cedar top, but these stand out. They are a different animal but I like them on the cedar topped Taylor the best. Long life.. for me.. and the bass notes ring out clear and bright. And.... they are not expensive.

Looks like you have given this a lot of thoughtful experimentation already. I have a Taylor 512 which is cedar and mahogany so I know the tone you are speaking about. I have Martin 80/20 lifespan lights 12-54 on it now, brightened up just a bit. But it is what it is and will never have the bite or punch of my spruce tops.

I am sure you already know this but maybe a really good pro set up will improve playability and allow to use the Elixirs you like. Just a thought

If you stated whether you use a pick or not I missed it.

If you use a pick, you want one with a crisp attack and not all have that. In fact, many times the biggest tonal changes can be achieved by altering your pick choice.

I like a crisp attack and use a V-Pick Trad. UL, or a PickBoy MetaCarbonate. Both are excellent at bringing more “brightness” and “punch” from my guitars, without adding pick noise.

Try Ernie Ball Aluminium Bronze. Snappier top end and clear deep lows. That's what it did to my cedar top.

With the caveat that EB ABs can be a bit too much at first. Give them a day or 2.

I did (as I said above). They were AWFUL! I actually threw away the 2nd set I bought, they were so bad. Sounded like tin cans !

:DA bass singer isn’t gonna sound like a tenor. A spruce top does sound very different from a hog or cedar top guitar. They are all different but grand in tone.

Cedar and mahogany are two strikes against getting a bright sound. Best bet is to pick a little closer to the bridge.
That will be more effective than playing around with string brands, etc..

I'm not looking for "a bright sound", this is a very warm/soft souding guitar, and I'm looking for strings that could help accentuate the punch and balance of it... which would, in fact, "balance" the tone- not make it "bright".

Think of it this way:

Most of you put strings on, and they are kinda' bright to start with, then they "settle in" nicely. then they get dull.

With THIS guitar, new strings ARE (sound) "settled in nicely", and by a week later (after they actually settle in) they sound dead (they are not dead; I don't play acoustic that much).

Which is why Elixirs (coated strings) work well with THIS guitar. But I don't like the slightly higher tension of the Elixirs. I wonder if Martin Lifespans are more "normal" tension (not as stiff as the Elixir Nanos)?

The same gauge will have the same tension. Correct me if I'm wrong. Did you try to lower the action? In any case, try the Martins and see if you like them! That's the best thing you can do.

Martin PB light sets have more total tension than Elixir Nano light. Maybe something with the slicker feel bothering you.

Bronze strings sets have slightly lower tension the PB sets.

If you want more punch and clarity play a little closer to the bridge. For example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RpggOr2p74

1. D'Addario Nickel Bronze
2. Martin Titanium ... and yep, they're $39.99 a set.

Yes, I looked that up... interesting... certainly didn't FEEL that way!

I've wondered about those Titaniums....

My situation is kind of unique, might actually be worth the price IF they work...

I change my acoustic strings only 2-3 times a year. Because they don't get a ton of use, I'm primarily an electric guy. So my guitar hangs for months between changes, and only gets played comparatively little. So, $80 for a year's worth of strings isn't TOO terrible, compared to you guys who play alot and change them every couple weeks...

I got a good 10 months out of the set I tried.
Nice feel, great tone and excellent volume.
Uncanny ability to stay in tune for the 1st 6 months.

Round core so don't cut them until they're up to tune.
Also read of some breakages from users that like to change tuning a lot - I didn't change tuning on mine and they stayed good.

Once you are used to Elixir tone (I love it on some of mine too) it is not easy to find that anywhere else. I like the TI Spectrums for less tension, string longevity and woody tone. Or I would try the hybrid Elixirs 54-11. They are less tension and subsequently a little less tone. But it is the tone of the Elixir you want to duplicate.

Are you missing chord, or single note, vibrato with the high tension?
Or do you have sore fingers?
Have you tried lowering the action?
Gotten a pro setup? A great setup can reduce the perceived string tension.

Being primarily a rock/blues player, I like to bend. Alot.
I don't want the action any lower, I like it on the medium side. i'm one of those guys that like some fight. Tension on the Sunbeams is great. 12s. I don't like 11s on this guitar, of any brand. If I were a fingerstyle player perhaps, but I'm a pick guy. Sort of a strummer/picker (not a flatpicker and not an "only strummer")

I see the Martin TIs are also round core, and have lower tension.

After looking up tension numbers (NO ONE has tension numbers on Sunbeams??), it seems the Martin SP Flexible Core "Tommy's Choice" (I had lying around), are higher tension than even the Elixirs... so I will re-try the Elixir Nanos again. The string longevity really makes it worth it for me, since I DON'T play alot of acoustic.

And, being silly, I'll probably drop $40 on a set of those Martin TIs as well....


The Sunbeams work great for gigs- put on fresh strings, play the gig (alot of strumming), then change them after. They just don't last, hanging on the wall for months.... at least not for this guitar/me... love how they sound when new/ish tho.