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-   -   What glue to use for binding repair? (https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=603319)

arwhite 01-08-2021 09:46 AM

What glue to use for binding repair?
 
I've got a recent Martin D18 with the binding coming loose in a 2" section on the back treble waist. I bought it used so it's not under warranty. I'm having a heck of a time finding someone to repair it. If I were going to attempt this repair myself what kind of glue would I need to use?

Mojotone 01-08-2021 02:12 PM

Usually you can fix a small area with titebond because there are small wood fibers left on the binding. To do it right you should heat the plastic binding with a heat gun and stretch it back to the waist or it won't hold. It more than likely popped loose from shrinking, so forcing it back under tension (without stretching it) will cause it to come lose again in the near future. Be careful though, some binding is cellulose and will catch fire or the finish can blister if you don't know what you are doing! A pro job of it will look clean.

arwhite 01-08-2021 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mojotone (Post 6599014)
Usually you can fix a small area with titebond because there are small wood fibers left on the binding. To do it right you should heat the plastic binding with a heat gun and stretch it back to the waist or it won't hold. It more than likely popped loose from shrinking, so forcing it back under tension (without stretching it) will cause it to come lose again in the near future. Be careful though, some binding is cellulose and will catch fire or the finish can blister if you don't know what you are doing! A pro job of it will look clean.

Actually I did pretty much what you describe using Titebond. It held for about 4 months. I noticed recently it is starting to come loose again.

DickHutchings 01-08-2021 02:38 PM

Your best bet is to remove any residual unknown glue and use binding cement from stewmac.

Mojotone 01-08-2021 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arwhite (Post 6599034)
Actually I did pretty much what you describe using Titebond. It held for about 4 months. I noticed recently it is starting to come loose again.

Did you heat the binding and stretch it back before gluing it? If you don't stretch it it won't hold for long unfortunately. The binding cement will work, you just have to be extremely careful because it has acetone in it and will damage the surrounding finish. Good luck!

John Arnold 01-08-2021 04:15 PM

I use odorless CA, which does not attack lacquer. +1 on heating the binding with a hair dryer to reduce the tension. The alternate way to relieve tension is to loosen the binding all the way to the joint at the neck, using a thin spatula. But I tend to avoid doing that when the loose section is short.

arwhite 01-08-2021 07:04 PM

Thanks for the input. I might see what I can do with it this weekend. It doesn't have to be cosmetically perfect for me. I just want it to stay glued.

mirwa 01-08-2021 07:16 PM

I do these weekly under warranty.

I read here numerous replies over the years of using ca, whilst I do not doubt it works for them, it does not work for me.

A typical repair for me involves peeling the binding back an inch past the loose section on each side. Using a razor blade I scrape residual glue and bits of the inside of the binding and I also scrape clean the binding ledge of the guitar.

With some heat from a heat gun, i lightly stretch the binding

I use a cellulose based glue, typically these days i melt down fresh new binding from martin with some acetone and make my own glue.

Glue and clamp in place for 24hrs.

After 24hrs, i lightly scrape the binding flush with the surrounding wood.

Then apply finish to the binding and any voids (this part takes the longest)

Job finished

Steve

Russ C 01-09-2021 02:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mirwa (Post 6599267)
I do these weekly under warranty.

I read here numerous replies over the years of using ca, whilst I do not doubt it works for them, it does not work for me.

A typical repair for me involves peeling the binding back an inch past the loose section on each side. Using a razor blade I scrape residual glue and bits of the inside of the binding and I also scrape clean the binding ledge of the guitar.

With some heat from a heat gun, i lightly stretch the binding

I use a cellulose based glue, typically these days i melt down fresh new binding from martin with some acetone and make my own glue.

Glue and clamp in place for 24hrs.

After 24hrs, i lightly scrape the binding flush with the surrounding wood.

Then apply finish to the binding and any voids (this part takes the longest)

Job finished

Steve

What are the issues you find with CA?

mirwa 01-09-2021 02:55 AM

Does not hold, sometimes as little as 24hrs its failed and other times up to a couple of months later.

Have repaired lots of martins that have been repaired previously by others havng used superglue, wood glue, craft glue, hobby glue, you name it

phavriluk 01-09-2021 02:50 PM

A thought
 
Binding repair is one of those how-hard-can-this-be tasks that can go seriously and irreversibly awry. What glue? Depends on what is being glued. There's already been a whole bunch of advice offered here, a lot of inconsistent. I suggest OP take the instrument to a luthier who's experienced in binding repair and get a thorough inspection.

redir 01-09-2021 07:00 PM

When I use shell for purflings I use CA for the binding and purfling scheme when building guitars and I've never had a problem with bindings coming loose for many years. I typically do use CA for such repairs too and have not had a problem that I know of anyway (never seen one come back).

I have also used Titebond in the past too and again have not had a problem though based on a lot of discussions here and on other forums I've stopped using it because many people have had problems. As mentioned is seems that the success with Titebond is because there are wood fibers attached to the plastic binding.

The problem of course with CA is that you can make a hell of mess out of things using it. But as mentioned so can you make a mess using glue like Duco.

The key is to be VERY careful.

mirwa 01-09-2021 07:05 PM

It is the one job I would not encourage anyone to do that has no experience in repairing.

These are high end guitars finished usually in full gloss.

I do these for Martin under warranty and I get nervous every time one comes in. Two are currently sitting in my shop waiting to be done.

John Arnold 01-10-2021 01:01 AM

Quote:

Does not hold, sometimes as little as 24hrs its failed and other times up to a couple of months later.
Strange.
I have been using odorless CA for Martin binding reglues for well over 20 years, and upwards of 50 per year. I can count on one hand the ones that have had to be redone. I have also used CA on many of my new guitars, mostly celluloid bound. Some of those guitars are over 30 years old, and no loose bindings yet.
I contend that using acetone base 'cellulose' (Duco) cement on celluloid will accelerate shrinkage, while I have seen no evidence that CA has such behavior. I use CA on new construction because it does not soften celluloid. Using Duco (or homemade glue made from celluloid shavings dissolved in acetone) can soften celluloid binding, and it can take many days to harden back up.

kushman 01-12-2021 12:32 PM

I have used Stewmac Fish Glue for binding repairs and it worked beautifully.

plus it is water soluble, so it's super easy to use and clean up is a breeze.


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