Electric versus acoustic?
 

I have been seriously considering an electric archtop, like an Ibanez Artcore AF75. It sounds pretty good acoustically and when plugged in. I cannot find an all acoustic archtop to try out. Will an acoustic archtop be constructed differently than an electric? Will the tone be better?

Todd

Don't know where you're located, but IME it's not too hard to find a Godin 5th Avenue - and since you're looking at an Ibanez Artcore in roughly the same price bracket I'll direct my comments accordingly. For the most part, electric archtops are constructed in a manner that tends to dampen resonance to a greater or lesser extent; while you will obtain some acoustic tone (and generate feedback when playing amplified, if you're not careful) from simple body resonance, with very few exceptions you'll never achieve the volume or richness of tone obtainable from a full-acoustic instrument. As with flattop acoustic guitars, the primary goal when constructing acoustic archtops is unamplified tone quality; as such, they are generally more lightly built than an electric since there is no need to support the pickup(s) and associated controls (again there are some exceptions, most notably vintage Gretsch models - I own a '64 Double Anniversary whose top thickness is comparable to my Godin 5th Avenue). Whether or not the tone is "better" is a highly subjective matter, but most players will agree that, as a whole, they have superior response and projection - and, unlike flattop guitars, laminated construction (such as the Godin) does not have an adverse effect on tone. If you'd like the "best of both worlds" for not too much money, there are several instruments on the market equipped with suspended pickups, that allow for both acoustic and amplified use; The Loar LH-350, Washburn HB15/HB15C/J600, Hofner CT J17, and the recently discontinued Epiphone Emperor Regent (one of my personal favorites, and still available as new-old-stock if you look around) can all be had for well under $1000 - any one of these would make an excellent introduction to the world of "amplified archtop" as opposed to "hollowbody electric"...

Hope this helps... :)

check out this Ibanez: http://www.archtop.com/ac_77ibhr.html

When they route out the top to install a fixed pickup it impacts the acoustic ability of the instrument. The larger guitars withstand this better but there aren't too many 18" archtops out there. Floating pickups or no pickups are nice for the acoustic sound.

There is another discussion that goes with a sound hole versus f holes. It seems that every round hole archtop I've played had a great acoustic sound. And example would be the Eastman model AR804CE.

I must admit confusion when it comes to laminates versus solid. I know there are many fine laminate archtops and look forward to playing a few of these someday. However, coming from the flat top world this is counterintuitive as applied to an acoustic. Of course, hand carved solid wood archtops without anything to impede top vibration make great acoustic guitars. Unfortunately even Eastman is getting expensive.

Solid carved and lightly built acoustic archtops often do NOT sound better than heavier or laminated archtops as amplified electric guitars. This is because the magnetic pickups these guitars are typically equipped with do NOT accurately reproduce the acoustic tone. They are designed to produce a warm, electric "jazz tone."

If you are using a pickup designed to amplify acoustic response such as a piezo or contact transducer - or a high quality microphone - then the better the acoustic nature of the archtop guitar, the better it will amplify.

As far as acoustic-oriented construction goes; it's exactly the same as flattops: Generally speaking, light is better than heavy; thin is better than thick; solid wood is better than laminated.

I'm kind of fighting the acoustic versus electric sound now. I very much like the sound of an acoustic archtop. However, when I plug in I'm faced with what a humbucker will and won't do. I can get a nice electric archtop sound and I can even crisp it up enough to get some snap, but it's not acoustic. I wonder how Julian Lage does it with a Manzer archtop and Carr Rambler amp. Currently experimenting with a K&K Definity.

As for laminates versus solids in the archtop world, I keep seeing references to laminates that are good acoustic instruments. This may simply be a point of reference in that they are good acoustically relative to the other laminates of the world. I would like to play one. I've never played a laminate anything that compared to solid wood.

Julian Lage's Manzer is a laminated archtop with a built in humbucking pickup. It has a strong acoustic quality but is meant to be amplified, as it is not acoustically loud compared to a carved instrument.

When he plays his '33 Gibson L-5 he uses a small condenser mic clipped to the tailpiece.

It might be judgmental on my part, but every time someone claims that a laminated guitar is a "good acoustic instrument" I wish I could hand them a vintage non-cutaway L-5 or Super 400 and then see what they think! I don't dispute that laminate instruments can sound GOOD acoustically, but they are never loud enough to play as a purely acoustic guitar with other musicians in a group. There is a difference between quality of tone and adequate volume, and nobody ever points it out.

Lage uses a condenser on the Manzer too, blends the sound.

if you get into to archtoos, you eventually do one of two things...find one type you like and stick with it, or have a lam box with routed pickups, a solid wood acoustic, maybe solid with a floater or solid with a routed bucker too...

people who don't dig jazz think there's one jazz sound...but there's as many tones as there are players.

I've seen Julian play live a couple of times and every time he has had a condenser mic on a stand. He uses the volume on the guitar to cut or boost the electric sound (Deluxe Reverb, mic'd, probably just local rented gear), and he just steps closer or further away from the mic to get the acoustic level.

IMO just as important is his touch. Like Jim Hall, he varies his pick grip, touch, and right hand position on the strings to vary his tone.

Like Mr. B said: there's more than one jazz sound.

I just picked up an Ibanez Artcore AF85 last week, and am in the process of acoustifying it. I'll post more about it as I make progress.

Im interested, what exactly do you plan on doing to make it acoustic?

rpguitar,you alway`s have a good answer sir,you are very well versed.

You are kind, Mr. Kayak. :)

I'm also looking forward to hearing about the acoustified Ibanez. Hopefully he's not removing the pickups!

The pickups are staying in the Artcore, though I'm considering replacing the neck pickup with either a Dimarzio Steve's Special or an Entwistle HDN, and adjusting the polepiece height where needed. I'm also planning to try out the K&K Definity or Pure Archtop. My last resort is an LR Baggs T-Bridge.

I have a big archtop. Most would think it's an 'acoustic' archtop because of its size & depth. The dilemma I face is whether to use acoustic or electric strings on it.

I use it as a recording guitar plugged-in . But most of the time, I'm not recording. It's just hanging on a wall in my wife's restaurant.
It's loud enough with electric strings. But it's a monster with acoustic PB's on it. If I need to record with it though, I should put electric strings on it. Magnetic pick-ups don't pick up on the wound strings as strongly as they do on the unwound 1st & 2nd string.