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-   -   Recommendation For Acoustic Guitar PUPS in Full Band Setting? (https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=629701)

gmel555 10-26-2021 10:07 AM

Recommendation For Acoustic Guitar PUPS in Full Band Setting?
 
After many years I’m getting back onstage with a full “rock” band (2 electric guitarists, bass & drums). Other than an occasional “primary” guitar role (e.g., intro to Behind Blue Eyes), I’ll be playing mostly rhythm acoustic guitar (and lead vocals). I’m looking to set-up one of my acoustics with a pickup system. I haven’t decided yet which guitar yet, but it will be a spruce-topped 00 or 000. My main goals are being present in the mix and avoiding feedback. In this setting getting a “perfect/pure” acoustic tone is kinda secondary to these other two needs IMO. Obviously, I want it to sound good but we're not talking about a need for James Taylor tone here. I’ll be running the guitar into a Genzler Array Pro, which in medium/large venues will be go direct (or mic’ed) into the PA; so the soundman will have some control on the tone.

Given all of the above, what PUPS would you recommend? My thinking is a transducer type with onboard volume (and tone?) control like a K&K Pure (maybe with the Ultra Pure Pre-amp?). I'm guessing internal mic systems like Anthem or Lyric are more prone to feedback. I want to avoid an under saddle transducer but I’m open to using a soundhole cover/feedback buster as well. THANKS IN ADVANCE!

Crowder 10-26-2021 10:25 AM

I just posted in another thread that my old bandmate used an Epiphone SST to front our rock band and it worked great IMO. Never experienced any feedback and I think the whole guitar was probably less expensive than a good pickup and preamp combo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MabWpwvzxg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcydearHKro

gmel555 10-26-2021 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crowder (Post 6841294)
I just posted in another thread that my old bandmate used an Epiphone SST to front our rock band and it worked great IMO. Never experienced any feedback and I think the whole guitar was probably less expensive than a good pickup and preamp combo.

Thx. I've considered an option like this. I'm torn between using one of a few really nice guitars I already have (with necks I'm comfortable with) vs. getting something I won't be concerned with getting the nicks and bruises that can happen playing out. I'm at a stage where I'm okay having one of the "herd" acquire some battle scars as part of its "historical record". They're made to be used! LOL

FrankHudson 10-26-2021 02:18 PM

When I had my Guild 12-string setup for playing with an electric band a few years back, my luthier recommended an under-saddle pickup vs. a soundboard transducer. I think better feedback rejection was part of that.

Volume adjustments can be handled with a volume pedal.

The few times I've used the Guild that way it worked for me.

As you say, pristine best possible tone wasn't my goal in that use either, though I suppose one could use an Aura, Tonedexter, etc and try to tweak for that if one was after it.

gmel555 10-26-2021 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankHudson (Post 6841456)
When I had my Guild 12-string setup for playing with an electric band a few years back, my luthier recommended an under-saddle pickup vs. a soundboard transducer. I think better feedback rejection was part of that.

I'm not surprised to hear that. I have one dread with LRBaggs UST (and vol wheel). I'd used it but I want a smaller guitar on stage and am now preferring shorter scales <25.0" as well. I mentioned not wanting a UST in my OP only because I didn't want to "futz" with the saddles on any of my current guitars. If I end up getting another guitar just for this purpose I wouldn't reject one with a UST if it played well and felt good. Thx

Methos1979 10-27-2021 05:45 AM

SBT pickups in acoustic guitars with loud rock bands = feedback. For best feedback rejection just slap a magnetic sound hole pickup in your favorite guitar. You can always try a sound hole plug if you go the SBT route but if you play loud and have monitors you'll be fighting to be heard in the mix without getting feedback.

guitarman68 10-27-2021 05:55 AM

I have SBTs in my guitars and love them, but I still use a magnetic soundhole pickup (Sunrise, Mimesis Kudos) when playing in a full band with electric guitars ,drums ...

jricc 10-27-2021 07:06 AM

I agree with Methos79 and guitarman68 in getting a soundhole mag, preferably with adjustable polepieces. I use an LR Baggs M1a and while it's not perfectly acoustic, it's good sounding and can turn it up without feedback.

noledog 10-27-2021 07:53 AM

Although mostly a soloist in my career, I had a period of fronting a band and I used a Guild D25 with a passive sound hole mag... zero feedback, good tone.
I still use a mag for specific shows currently and my two recommendations would be a Baggs M1, or my current favorite; DeArmond Tone Boss.
The Tone Boss is lighter in weight and has a volume wheel. Both are passive and sound wonderful; zero feedback.

SalFromChatham 10-27-2021 09:08 AM

Have fun!

While I love my K&Ks in the two guitars that have them, an external preamp on the floor is usually needed to take off a little low and mid end. Additionally a soundhole plug is imperative.

While USTs dont get a lot of love for their propensity to be "quacky", I think the Baggs Element VTC is terrific - and it really cuts through. I also agree with noledog and really like the Baggs M1A as well - but still think the Element is better for your needs. If you are going to have a floor preamp anyways, the passive soundholes are great too. I loved my dearmond and my m1 (both after listening to noledog's advice).

gmel555 10-27-2021 09:53 AM

Thanks to all for the informative responses! The "trend" in the comments above seems to lean toward mag. soundhole pup. That would have the added benefit of being the least invasive on the guitar while I try it out (I've decided to use one of the current herd). This morning I spoke with a long-time guitarist friend who's been playing part-time consistently in full bands for the last 40 years and has seen a lot of rigs. He also thought soundhole mag was the best route and suggested trying out the DiMarzio Black Angel or M1A. I like that I can try it first without any mods and get an initial impression. I've got a couple months of rehearsals to experiment with on-stage control (pre-amp, volume pedal, etc.) with some equipment I already have or can borrow. I'll start with the 10' quick mount cable just taped over the guard, but If I'm liking it after a few gigs I'll run it through the strap button. I think I'm dangerously close to a good plan. I've got a Larrivee dread with a Baggs UST that works well, but again, I'm hoping to use a smaller guitar w slightly shorter scale for this. Thanks again!:up:

Goat Mick 10-27-2021 10:09 AM

I'm moving back to having Baggs M1 passive pickups in all my gigging guitars. They just sound good and are very dependable. Probably not the most genuine acoustic sounding pickup you can have, but it does give a great amplified acoustic tone, doesn't feed back and doesn't require batteries. And I've never had a situation where it didn't have a strong enough signal. SBT pickups are bad to feedback and squeal at higher volumes and they also transmit a loud "pop" anytime your hand hits the bridge or soundboard while playing. Not very noticeable at low to medium volumes but very noticeable and distracting at higher volumes like you would have with a band.

Jinder 10-28-2021 05:10 AM

I increasingly find SBTs unsuited to my playing style. I don’t like the exaggerated dynamics (that pop/boom thing when the heel of your hand hits the bridge), the poor feedback resistance and the congested mids which are hard to dial out.

They’re also poorly suited to band work as has been pointed out, due to the poor capacity for gain before feedback.

I use a Sunrise soundhole pickup for almost everything, and love them. I like them so much I have three…They work very well both solo and in a band setting, and are remarkably impervious to feedback. I run mine through a Boss AD10 preamp which is a perfect fit. Another great option is the Seymour Duncan MagMic, which can be used with the internal condenser mic blended in for solo work and turned off for full band work as required. I have had one in my Dove for a long time and am extremely happy with it.

gmel555 10-29-2021 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jinder (Post 6842682)
..............I use a Sunrise soundhole pickup for almost everything, and love them. I like them so much I have three…They work very well both solo and in a band setting, and are remarkably impervious to feedback. I run mine through a Boss AD10 preamp which is a perfect fit. Another great option is the Seymour Duncan MagMic, which can be used with the internal condenser mic blended in for solo work and turned off for full band work as required. I have had one in my Dove for a long time and am extremely happy with it.

That's very useful info. Thank you for posting....gmel555

fwphoto 10-29-2021 04:42 PM

Ultra Tonic
 
Been a fan of K&K pickups for a long time but have used soundhole covers to eliminate feedback in loud band settings. I recently converted one to a James May Ultra Tonic & have been super impressed with the sound quality of the K&K without any feedback whatever.

http://jamesmayengineering.com

I will convert my other guitar with a K&K to the Ultra Tonic & will go full Ultra Tonic on a third that currently has no pickup.

No connection to James May but think the Ultra Tonic solves the major problem with the K&K style pickups, feedback. Did I mention it sounds great?

Frank


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