Vintage Kay and Harmony guitars
 

There are a lot of old vintage Kay and Harmony archtops that always seem to pop up on auction websites, and craigslist. Any clues as to sorting the wheat from the chaf on these?

Mostly chaff.

There's some fun ones out there, they'll be priced a little higher, solid pressed tops, can sound pretty good. But most of 'em are just novelties.

so then, did they make good ones - but you just never see those for sale? I've seen some historical data that indicates they made some solid ones, ( maple, rosewood, mahogany,). I've just seen a few lately that looked like they were of better quality. It would be fun to get one or two to play with, but I certainly don't want to waste my time or $$ on a plywood POS either...

They're definitely out there, but yes, just not as many. I guess people either hang on to 'em or there just weren't as many of them to begin with. Generally, it seems the smalle bodies tend to be the cheaper ones that are more miss than hit.

I have a 17" Kay "Master Cutaway," and it's pretty cool. Has a huge neck and tiny frets--it's not a guitar I'm going to fly around playing jazz solos on, but for old school swing rhythm, it's great. Solid pressed top, I believe. It's LOUD:)

Like all other instruments, quality is all over the place. There is a big difference between say an all-birch Harmony Archtone and a Cremona or Brilliant model. Same with Kays. The Kay Television archtops from the late 1930s are, as example, beautifully made, carved top and back plate instruments. I recently picked up a 1935 Capital which was built by Gibson for Jenkins Music to help weather the Depression. 16" lower bout, pressed spruce top and mahogany body, no truss rod. Interesting skunk stripe inlaid down the center of the board. Feel is all Gibson.

Harmony did not make a "plywood" guitar until just before they closed up shop in the 1970s. While it may have been birch, every Harmony up to that point was built with solid woods. While most Harmonys were fashioned with pressed wood top plates, you can find carved top models if you know what you are looking for.

Here's a good old cheap one!
 

if I can get this youtube link to work...

https://youtu.be/6stEmxrwU68

Those old pressed solid-top Harmony archtops make quite good roots/early acoustic blues guitars - not as refined as a Gibson L-50 or Epiphone Zenith (or even its modern-day counterpart Godin 5th Avenue) but loads of punch and volume - if you can find one where the neck/dovetail joint hasn't gone south. As beginner/budget instruments too many of them were subjected to the ravages of the old New Brunswick (NJ) Black Diamond strings - standard fare when you walked into your local mom-&-pop music store/record shop/hardware store/drugstore and asked for "a set of strings"; you've got to hope for one of those "under-the-bed" specials that was bought in the late-50s/early-60s, played maybe a half-dozen times, and then put away when Junior lost interest - and after six decades those are becoming increasingly rare. If you're after the same visual/sonic vibe with none of the hassles of an old instrument, grab a Godin 5th Avenue acoustic or Loar LH-300, set it up with Martin Monel 13's, and play to your heart's content... :guitar:

Also bear in mind that the playing style of old archtops was very different from what we are used to thinking of with "Jazz" today...

Those old guitars were usually strung with heavies and run with a fairly high action. They were played HARD to be heard unamplified in the mix against horns. They are LOUD played this way with a really good tone... String them with lights and try to play technical, modern stuff - and you will be completely unimpressed/disappointed.

Quality wise... Yep.. They had a HUGE range of offerings from cheap beaters to the most expensive on the market.. More expensive than Martin and Gibson offerings. Their good stuff was very very good.. Their cheap stuff was generally pretty uninteresting.

Slingerland Archtop made in the thirties
 

I have a beautiful Slingerland Archtop natural finish that is in perfect condition with a four bar Grover De Luxe tailpeice on it... Action is low, neck is straight, it's a beautiful guitar... Five piece neck is a little fat compared to my Gibson's, Martins etc. but its fun for that slap rhythm style playing... My wife can't stand the sound of it when she sings... I think she is just used to hearing the bold sound of my other guitars..
Question is, what size and type of strings would you recommend that may change the sound or if changing would help... I have med Elixir's on it now... Thanks

I use to hang out with a girl whose grandma had a Martin d28. We went to see her one day and she pulled the Martin out and a very old harmony archtop. That Martin was nice but the old harmony was just plain cool. Sounded good and easy to play. Definitely was hard to put down I’ve been looking to find one every since but I’d rather not finding one in need of work

I’ve restored a few Silvertones and no name catalog archtops with good straight necks and put mounted neck position humbuckers in.

They are great players plugged in for many styles and have a lot of mojo.

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/h...pson9apsah.jpg

Man, I'd love to plug that into a little tube amp and crank it up!

I am in rural MN and it has been common to see these old catalogue archtops come in that belonged to a clients grandparents and in many cases were used in old time dance bands. Mostly as rhythm instruments I would guess as the finish is usually completely worn off in the first position.

Here is an old Regal that belonged to the client’s wife’s dad who fronted a dance band in central MN back in the 30’s and 40’s

https://youtu.be/XWXcjh7pAoc

Something like this might make for a more period-authentic visual/tonal vibe:

https://shop.guildguitars.com/produc...-mount-pickup/
https://shop.guildguitars.com/produc...0rhythm-chief/
https://shop.guildguitars.com/produc...me-knob-amber/

On the ones I have seen there is not enough room for a floating pickup. Either the fretboard is very slightly elevated or glued right to the top.

Rather than cut a hole in the top I did use one of these on the Regal in the video. It worked well.

http://www.lacemusic.com/USA_Acoustic.php

A while ago I bought a bottom of the barrel "Amplificator" that if I were to guess, I'd say it was a rebranded Stella. Needed a reset, a refret, and tuners. It had painted on binding and fake flame maple paint. I believe it to be late 40s early 50s.

I took the back off, shaved the braces some, and glued a set of JJB pickups under the bridge area. I jacked the neck back into position and reglued the back on. I had to then trim the back which was overhanging the sides about 1/4 inch. I then bound the guitar in real plain white binding and used Gibson type frets on it.

It has a very funky tone, and the pickups work great. Loud, brash and very little sustain. It is great for old time and Americana music. Almost all of these are in horrible disrepair but worth fixing yourself.

Now Harmony made some really nice electrics like the Meteor. Well worth having for sure.

aging a Harmony Patrician
 

Hi all,

I just found a beauty of a Harmony Patrician that bears no serial number, that i can find, and i'm just wondering if someone here can tell by the look of it and its specifics around what years it was manufactured. i can't seem to figure out how to upload a photo here but if you message me i can get the images to you. thanks!

David

Hi I have three archtops - a Gibson L-4 ('34), and Harmoney Monterey ( '64) and a 2007 Eastman AR805.

The Harmony was my first, and I bought it in 2006 in , effectively, showroom condition. The neck is perfect, and it sounds great for what it was designed as - i.e. a dance band rhythm box. It is as sited for that job as the Gibson.
#
The Eastman , understandable has a far more open warmer tonality.

Harmony as we all know made an enormous amount of instruments of every types and , like Martins and Gibsons - sometimes they scored a bulls eye, whilst many more were just somewhere on the butt.
See :

That Harmony has about the coolest burst (if you can call it that) I've ever seen.

Old versus New
 

So, based on the experiences of those who know, what modern archtops such as Eastman and Loar would you compare to the Harmonys, Kays, Vegas, Silvertones, etc. of the past?

Specifically, what Loar and Eastman models would you compare to the older ones listed?

Had two Loars, didn't like the build quality or excessively low neck set, moved em on.

Re: Eastmans and old Harmonys .. please look at the video I posted a few back on this thread.

Seems to me the Godin 5th Avenue (acoustic) would be closest to the old cheap archtops. Plywood. The Godin is really well built though.

Steven

My favorite electric is my 1964 Kay Speed Demon. It was a mess when I bought it a year ago (for $250), but I could tell immediately that it had potential. My local tech was able to get it playing great again.

I especially like the unique voice and attack that the all-wood floating bridge provides. The neck is very full, with a soft V profile.

https://i.imgur.com/3FlXlvq.jpg

Nice - almost wound up with the 3-PU version when I was a kid (about $100 as I recall) but held out for the sunburst Gretsch Double Annie that I still own...

Nevertheless, what goes around comes around - located a '61 Kay Galaxie (the upscale version of your guitar - flame maple body/teaburst finish, single Kelvinator PU, slim neck) for $30 with period (but not original) chipboard case, at a church flea market where my wife and I were booked to play back in December. Sounds great - surprising amount of frequency/dynamic range in that cheapo pickup (I can see why Clapton gravitated toward them in his early days) but needs some work (as they all do): a good cleanup brought it back to good cosmetic shape (had to remove six decades of tobacco-smoke residue and general crud/tarnish), PU surround is crumbling (fortunately those may be available from the new Kay operation), bridge was hacked by some drunken would-be tech in an attempt to lower the action (might need to have one made), and it's missing the pickguard (probably leave that off - the top wood is that pretty) and trussrod cover (definitely want that replaced). Good investment regardless - seen them routinely selling on the 'net for $600-700 in the same condition I bought mine and $800+ restored, so I might bring it back and flip it on a future purchase...

It might have a set of ink-stamped numbers and letters in it. Problem is, the ink fades....and I mean to "near-invisible". The serial/model numbers are about 5/8" tall, and stamped on the back and the top, sometimes close to the neck block, but often random places.

The date stamp is a real pain to see. You are usually looking for just one small, faded blue stamp, on the back, randomly placed. Often VERY faded (need maximum light, mirror, lucky viewing angle, glasses, and anything else you can add, to see it). It is a three-character stamp, about 3/8" tall, first character is either "F" or "S", second and third are numbers indicating the year.

hi

I have a Hofner President with an aftermarket pickup fitted to the neck, The jack is set in the pick guard!!

I picked it up for peanuts many years ago at a bootsale and although it looks lovely (To me at least!), It doesn't sound very nice!! (To me at least- Probably my rubbish playing! :D )

https://i.imgur.com/roLbju9.jpg https://i.imgur.com/IoqO84v.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Ap7hDVJ.jpg https://i.imgur.com/AFbMJQa.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/xfeL0dI.jpg https://i.imgur.com/QwUVKuR.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/KzdIUHt.jpg


It's mostly a wall hanger for me these days but I may get it down and try some different strings as I fitted lightweight Daddario's years ago, May try some heavier guage strings in it..


John :)