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-   -   A sound I'd like to achieve - reverb? (https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=544609)

TBman 04-19-2019 11:28 AM

A sound I'd like to achieve - reverb?
 
1 Attachment(s)
To continue with my reverb thread, this is the hint of reverb I would like to use in certain covers and tunes of my own (imitation is the sincerest form of flattery), but I really don't know where to start to get there:



Also, here is the spectral/wav of the clip. Were the upper regions scrubbed somehow? Massive LP or huge noise reduction (why no "hollowness" that you usually hear when noise reduction is over done?)

Joseph Hanna 04-19-2019 11:50 AM

Right off the bat I can tell you that's an extraordinarily good reverb. Theres's movement on the tails so my guess is some kind of Lexicon. PCM 81, PCM 91 or even a 480L. Just a guess though. It's very, very difficult to get that kind of feeling with most (if not all) plug-in reverbs.

The second thing is they've rolled off all the low-end response of the verb and boosted the high's. I've always had good luck getting reverbs to sit using eq especially with solo instruments. As a discussion several months backs I've had more luck with creating that kind of depth with a plug-in called Echo Boy.

Finally that's not what I would consider a hint of reverb :) There appears to be a good deal of pre-delay and I'm guessing' upwards 3 seconds of delay.

rick-slo 04-19-2019 12:04 PM

Experiment with medium to large hall reverbs. That sound like about a four to six second reverb tail at thirty percent plus wet to dry.
A little too mushy for my taste but works decently on slower paced tunes.

Might be more info on the place you lifted that clip from.

Doug Young 04-19-2019 01:14 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Barry, I don't see any evidence of noise reduction (tho you never know). Here's what a short clip I just recorded looks like, using that same or similar RX visual setting:

Attachment 21643

No noise reduction done here. If your clip was done in a professional studio, it would be even quieter than mine, I don't think I even bothered to close the studio door when I recorded this. For what it's worth, I usually use the "multi-color" option in RX, which makes that same clip look like this:

Attachment 21644

Suddenly, it looks much noisier :-), which partly tells you that much depends on the visualization. I like this view because it makes things (squeeks, noise, etc) stand out better, which is what I want - it helps me see problems. But that's just a choice - all the options are there in RX so you can pick what works for you.

Your reference track sounds very nice, that sure is a lot of reverb, but it works for that example. Can you play those measures of the piece? (I don't recognize the tune - what/who is it?). If so, that would be a great way to experiment and see if you can match the sound.

TBman 04-19-2019 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Young (Post 6040711)
Suddenly, it looks much noisier :-), which partly tells you that much depends on the visualization. I like this view because it makes things (squeeks, noise, etc) stand out better, which is what I want - it helps me see problems. But that's just a choice - all the options are there in RX so you can pick what works for you.

Your reference track sounds very nice, that sure is a lot of reverb, but it works for that example. Can you play those measures of the piece? (I don't recognize the tune - what/who is it?). If so, that would be a great way to experiment and see if you can match the sound.

I'm going to try that visualization setting in Rx7, thanks for the tip.

The music clip is from Stephen Wake's cd Journey's End - "The Willow Tree." I just started learning it very late last night, but yes I want to try to match what he is doing. It should be fun and educational.

runamuck 04-19-2019 05:22 PM

I think many reverbs on the market sound OK on a lot of things. But for what I do, I've always been let down, not matter how much I've fiddled with low pass filters and EQ. I think I've tried just about all of them.

But I found one finally that I'm very happy with: Ebony, from Acustica Audio. You can download a free trial but there's one problem: it requires a powerful computer and even then, you'll need to freeze tracks if you're using more than a couple instances.

Although not nearly as good but MUCH easier on CPU cycles, is Little Plate from FabFilter.

The best reverb I've ever heard, and very much like the example posted by the OP, is from one of the chambers at Capitol Records. Hopefully one day they'll let that be sampled. In the meantime, there's Ebony.

Doug Young 04-20-2019 12:24 AM

This is always a great experiment to try to match someone's sound. I just spent a few minutes messing with your example tonight. Reverb's hard, but I found that the (free) Bricasti M7 Large Hall impulse loaded into Sound Designer (you could use SIR), sounds pretty close to me, with a decay of almost 4 seconds. The other aspect's actually harder - matching the raw recorded sound, with a different guitar, different room, different mics, and most critically, different player. This is a really simple little melody, but it's still hard to replicate Stephen's exact touch and phrasing, tho I might get closer with some practice. I'm listening to what I recorded, and it's hard to focus on the reverb when there are differences in phrasing, attack and tone, which no two people typically match. Still a great exercise.

TBman 04-20-2019 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Young (Post 6041203)
This is always a great experiment to try to match someone's sound. I just spent a few minutes messing with your example tonight. Reverb's hard, but I found that the (free) Bricasti M7 Large Hall impulse loaded into Sound Designer (you could use SIR), sounds pretty close to me, with a decay of almost 4 seconds. The other aspect's actually harder - matching the raw recorded sound, with a different guitar, different room, different mics, and most critically, different player. This is a really simple little melody, but it's still hard to replicate Stephen's exact touch and phrasing, tho I might get closer with some practice. I'm listening to what I recorded, and it's hard to focus on the reverb when there are differences in phrasing, attack and tone, which no two people typically match. Still a great exercise.


I'm glad its not just me. I'll look at one of his arrangements and say, "Hey this is cake", but then it's a "Hey, what's going on here" shortly after, :D

His touch and the reverb makes for a powerful combination. If I can get some of that into my compositions I'll be happy.

I don't know how to use the Bricasti M7 wav impulses into my DAWs (Rx 7, Adobe Audition and Audacity) though. This Ambient one that I found will help me understand what knob does what. I'm going to record some chromatic scales played slowly and then start from there.

KevWind 04-20-2019 09:11 AM

I agree with others there is a fair amount of reverb (as is common in Celtic music) Also I'm going to offer that while some of the sound is likely reverb (hardware or plugin ) some of that sound is (as has been stated the player himself but also likely the guitar, the room, and mics.
From the YouTube video looks to be a professional recording booth , or backed close to wall in a live room, that has both absorption and reflection. He is using two LDC mics (not sure of the brand/model , I have seen photos of that elongated head basket but do not remember the brand)

So to address your question on where to start:

Set up a parallel reverb track and send the audio to it from the guitar track to the reverb track, with the send level at 0 db (unity gain)
Set the reverb to 100 % wet.
Set the reverb pre delay to between 40 and 80 MS.
And set the the parallel reverb track fader level (for starters) at - 15 db....... You can then adjust the level to the exact amount of effect you desire

If the reverb has on board EQ adjustment on the reverb itself, you can use it , or place an EQ (that has high and low pass filters ) before the Reverb on the parallel reverb track...
For starters experiment with using both a high and low pass filter .
Set the highpass (low end cut ) to roll off starting at 600 hz.
Set the lowpass filter (high end cut) to 10kHz

Doug Young 04-20-2019 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TBman (Post 6041344)
His touch and the reverb makes for a powerful combination. If I can get some of that into my compositions I'll be happy.

I find that to be the most useful part of doing an exercise like this. You start by trying to figure out the recorded sound, and end focusing on phrasing, expression, etc. That almost always ends up making a bigger difference than the recording aspect.

Quote:


I don't know how to use the Bricasti M7 wav impulses into my DAWs (Rx 7, Adobe Audition and Audacity) though. .
You just need an IR-based reverb plugin. SIR is a free one. I think Rick-slo was using this for a while. I use Sound Designer, which is included in Logic when I do it. I haven't used SIR in ages, but I think it's about the same - load the IR, like selecting a preset. Worth exploring, since you can get access to a lot of great sounds, including IRs of expensive gear like the Bricasti or the TC6000 for cheap or free. But algorithmic reverbs are fine as well. I don't think there's anything especially magic about Stephen's reverb, it sounds nice and he's using a lot of it, but you can come close to that sound with any decent reverb.

Doug Young 04-20-2019 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevWind (Post 6041374)
From the YouTube video looks to be a professional recording booth , or backed close to wall in a live room, that has both absorption and reflection. He is using two LDC mics (not sure of the brand/model , I have seen photos of that elongated head basket but do not remember the brand)

Are you looking at the old video from 2007? Hard to be sure, but the mic looks like an audio-technica to me. His various videos show lots of different mics, tho, and seem to be shot in his home studio from the look of it.

rick-slo 04-20-2019 01:50 PM

As far as convolution reverbs I do have SIR, Voxengo Pristine Space, and Waves IR-1. I usually use the Waves IR-1 (which is currently on sale for just $35).
The IR-1 comes with its own large selection of impulse responses but I usually have been using (free) Acousticas EMT 252, EMT 250 and EMT Non-Lin IRs. The interaction beween IR-1 and some
of the EMT 252 IRs gives a very thick sound with some of the shorter length ones. The (free) Bricasti M-7 IRs are also very good.

Trevor B. 04-20-2019 02:28 PM

Of late I've been reacquainting myself with Logic Pro X stock reverbs and find they're a lot better than most of the assessments of them I see online. Space Designer and ChromaVerb in particular sound really good to me these days. In the interests of full disclosure I have loaded Lexicon 480L and 960I IRs as well as a bunch of Bricasti M7s into my Space Designer.
I'm starting to realize it's not how many plugins and how much they cost that matters. It's how much time and effort I'm willing to expend getting to know them that makes the difference.

KevWind 04-20-2019 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Young (Post 6041632)
Are you looking at the old video from 2007? Hard to be sure, but the mic looks like an audio-technica to me. His various videos show lots of different mics, tho, and seem to be shot in his home studio from the look of it.

Yes (vid below)

yes hard to tell but I was noticing appears to be wood wainscoting with the blue fabric/rug above it I have seen similar in a pro studio also

I think your correct an AT 4050 it looks like,,,, I knew I had seen it but could not remember the brand.

Doug Young 04-20-2019 04:27 PM

Yes, even the Logic built-in Space Designer IRs sound quite good to me, I'm not sure why anyone would diss them - all sounds are good, it's just a matter of using them where they work. But add in all the freely downloadable IRs and you get more than you can possibly need, and close emulations of hardware gear a home recording setup would never have. I have a real Bricasti, and to me, it sounds better than the IRs, more lively somehow, but at the level of reverb I usually use (way less than in Barry's reference), the difference is pretty subtle.


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