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-   -   Looping using condenser mic/mics only ? (https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=561770)

Silly Moustache 10-25-2019 07:35 AM

Looping using condenser mic/mics only ?
 
Hi. Yesterday,
I stumbled on this Y/T video:



I'd really like to make a video, playing a rhythm, a bass (OK that'd be plugged in, and a dobro and mandolin (and maybe vocals)

I should admit that I'm a technophobe! I see he mentions an RC50 but this machine is discontinued, and I really don't want to get some complicated gizmo that confuses me (I've done that bonfire).

Can anyone advise?

Wengr 10-25-2019 08:06 AM

SM if all you want to do is stack parts and play along with yourself, I would think any simple looper would suffice. I use a Digitech Express XT. Works well and sounds good- one footswitch and a volume knob, that's it.

I would deal with the mic pre separately. Outboard pre or small mixer (the little Mackies sound decent to my ear), and an outboard phantom power box if needed.

Rudy4 10-25-2019 08:25 AM

Hi Silly,
I often spend an hour or two doing that in my "get away in the evening" basement practice area. I use a simple looper and usually start with a verse / chorus arrangement with guitar, switch to bass, and then overlay a main guitar part, often capoed.

I use this for developing instrumental tunes, working out lyrics for new songs, or just plain fun time.

Most loopers are stereo, so I utilize that by running the guitar through the left side and running the bass through the right side. It's very nice to have them routed to the separate amps. I'm using an Electroharmonix 720 here, and it's a very nice inexpensive looper with basic features that the technophobe can easily master. I would highly advise AGAINST getting a single button looper. I've been there, done that. You NEED a looper with a dedicated stop button!

Your main difficulty is going to be using a mic. You can find basic loopers with a mic input, but if you're monitoring with a amp then the bleed from your previous recording is going to couple back into what you're trying to record to. That's going to complicate things for you. You could simply use headphones, but that's often not enjoyable.

Using a guitar with a pickup will make things a LOT easier. My main "lopping guitar" in the right side of the photo, is awesome for this purpose and is very acoustic-sounding.

Another great thing about having a simple looper setup is that it's like having your best guitar-playing buddies sitting around and waiting to play rhythm guitar and bass for you anytime you happen to be in the mood. Who wouldn't like that?

Hope that makes the process a bit more understandable.

https://i.imgur.com/pbIBfCN.jpg

KevWind 10-25-2019 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache (Post 6194958)
Hi. Yesterday,
I stumbled on this Y/T video:



I'd really like to make a video, playing a rhythm, a bass (OK that'd be plugged in, and a dobro and mandolin (and maybe vocals)

I should admit that I'm a technophobe! I see he mentions an RC50 but this machine is discontinued, and I really don't want to get some complicated gizmo that confuses me (I've done that bonfire).

Can anyone advise?

Yes you can do what you are proposing and yes you can get a very simple looper pedal with loop and overdub capability.
But in order to use mic/s as has been mentioned, the looper pedals (I am aware of) all use a line level input (not mic level) so you will need some type of mixer or unit that will take in mic level and output line level. Additionally said unit, will have to have the phantom power option to use condenser mic/s

Rudy4 10-25-2019 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevWind (Post 6195025)
Yes you can do what you are proposing and yes you can get a very simple looper pedal with loop and overdub capability.
But in order to use mic/s as has been mentioned, the looper pedals (I am aware of) all use a line level input (not mic level) so you will need some type of mixer or unit that will take in mic level and output line level. Additionally said unit, will have to have the phantom power option to use condenser mic/s

The relatively low end Boss RC-30 has a level-adjustable XLR microphone input and has phantom power for a condenser mic.

Silly Moustache 10-25-2019 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rudy4 (Post 6195173)
The relatively low end Boss RC-30 has a level-adjustable XLR microphone input and has phantom power for a condenser mic.

Hi, thanks for this. Apart from bass guitar, vocals, AND guitar, mandolin, and dobro would all need to be added via the mic (I don't electrify my instruments).

Also, if I used this, how would I hear the earlier "loops" so I can play over them?

Would I have to connect it to a p.a. or something?
I really wanted the final sound to be as genuinely acoustic as possible.

KevWind 10-25-2019 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rudy4 (Post 6195173)
The relatively low end Boss RC-30 has a level-adjustable XLR microphone input and has phantom power for a condenser mic.

Oh that is good to know :up:
But Silly mentioned he was looking for something simpler than the RC 50 shown in the video. So I was speaking about the normal single pedal size looper options Like the RC 3 I have or the EH720 Rudy mentioned

KevWind 10-25-2019 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache (Post 6195255)
Hi, thanks for this. Apart from bass guitar, vocals, AND guitar, mandolin, and dobro would all need to be added via the mic (I don't electrify my instruments).

Also, if I used this, how would I hear the earlier "loops" so I can play over them?

Would I have to connect it to a p.a. or something?
I really wanted the final sound to be as genuinely acoustic as possible.

Yes PA or headphones

Silly Moustache 10-25-2019 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rudy4 (Post 6194983)
Hi Silly,
I often spend an hour or two doing that in my "get away in the evening" basement practice area. I use a simple looper and usually start with a verse / chorus arrangement with guitar, switch to bass, and then overlay a main guitar part, often capoed.

I use this for developing instrumental tunes, working out lyrics for new songs, or just plain fun time.

Most loopers are stereo, so I utilize that by running the guitar through the left side and running the bass through the right side. It's very nice to have them routed to the separate amps. I'm using an Electroharmonix 720 here, and it's a very nice inexpensive looper with basic features that the technophobe can easily master. I would highly advise AGAINST getting a single button looper. I've been there, done that. You NEED a looper with a dedicated stop button!

Your main difficulty is going to be using a mic. You can find basic loopers with a mic input, but if you're monitoring with a amp then the bleed from your previous recording is going to couple back into what you're trying to record to. That's going to complicate things for you. You could simply use headphones, but that's often not enjoyable.

Using a guitar with a pickup will make things a LOT easier. My main "lopping guitar" in the right side of the photo, is awesome for this purpose and is very acoustic-sounding.

Another great thing about having a simple looper setup is that it's like having your best guitar-playing buddies sitting around and waiting to play rhythm guitar and bass for you anytime you happen to be in the mood. Who wouldn't like that?

Hope that makes the process a bit more understandable.

https://i.imgur.com/pbIBfCN.jpg

Hi, thanks for this, but I see you have electric instruments and, apart from the bass guitar, everything would be acoustic.

Thoughts?

Rudy4 10-25-2019 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache (Post 6195282)
Hi, thanks for this, but I see you have electric instruments and, apart from the bass guitar, everything would be acoustic.

Thoughts?

I mostly play acoustic instruments, but I have a few electrics like the bass that I do gigs with occasionally. I mostly play acoustic guitars of various flavors, banjo, and mando family instruments. My octave mandolin is in the stand with the guitar in the photo.

If you re-read my post you'll see the caveats for microphone use. It can be done, but it's not as easy as using an instrument that will plug in.

If you're going to go almost exclusively microphone input then you need a small stereo amp and a GOOD set of headphones, particularly if you want the results to sound acoustic. Most loopers won't drive headphones directly so you need to feed a small stereo headphone amp or combo like the Roland Street Cube shown in the photo to power the headphones.

If you're going to use a bass then the headphones would work, but the Street Cube will not reproduce the lower frequencies. I have the Fender Rumble 100 for doing gigs, so it's no big deal for me to use it with the looper.

You have to evaluate what you REALLY are trying to accomplish and work toward setting yourself up for that. If you're looking to do entire songs as high quality recordings you would need to do things differently than if you are doing your own back-up band thing.

philjs 10-25-2019 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache (Post 6195282)
Hi, thanks for this, but I see you have electric instruments and, apart from the bass guitar, everything would be acoustic. Thoughts?

TC Helicon makes a version of the Ditto looper for mics...XLR in and out, phantom power and dedicated stop switch.

Phil

Rudy4 10-25-2019 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philjs (Post 6195578)
TC Helicon makes a version of the Ditto looper for mics...XLR in and out, phantom power and dedicated stop switch.

Phil

Looks like it would work for Silly's application. It's cheap enough, but looking at T.C.'s website answered a couple of questions I had, and didn't answer a few.

It appears to only save whatever loop is being used, so no storage slots for multiple loops.

There's no listing for memory length; it would be nice to know. Five minutes is probably OK for a single song if it only does single memory storage.

Fixed 32 volt phantom power. Most mics will work on that, some are picky and require a full 48 volts, industry standard for phantom voltage.

It appears to be targeted at entry level looping where the user will only use a microphone; again, ideal for Silly's use.

When I was doing a bunch of research prior to buying my first looper there were many complaints about switch failure on the Ditto loopers. Hopefully they've gotten better.

Silly Moustache 10-26-2019 03:33 AM

Thank you guys for all your input.
Sounds as if I would need far more kit (and knowledge) than I could assemble I've done something similar with a Yamaha DAW once -and I'm sorry I sold it now as they don't seem to be sold any more.

I guess I wanted to use these looper things for a purpose that they aren't really designed for.

I'd just love to be able to record an acoustic guitar rhythm and a bass track so that I can make a video of me playing my Dobro, mandolin, and maybe my banjo.

I just can't find a guitarist that plays my way in my area.

Oh well.

philjs 10-26-2019 05:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache (Post 6195727)
I guess I wanted to use these looper things for a purpose that they aren't really designed for.

I'd just love to be able to record an acoustic guitar rhythm and a bass track so that I can make a video of me playing my Dobro, mandolin, and maybe my banjo.

There is another option: use a mic preamp with an effects loop to feed an outboard looper that would do everything you need. I think a few have been mentioned.

Check out Radial's Voco-Loco or Eventides MixingLink...

Phil

Rudy4 10-26-2019 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache (Post 6195727)
Thank you guys for all your input.
Sounds as if I would need far more kit (and knowledge) than I could assemble I've done something similar with a Yamaha DAW once -and I'm sorry I sold it now as they don't seem to be sold any more.

I guess I wanted to use these looper things for a purpose that they aren't really designed for.

I'd just love to be able to record an acoustic guitar rhythm and a bass track so that I can make a video of me playing my Dobro, mandolin, and maybe my banjo.

I just can't find a guitarist that plays my way in my area.

Oh well.

Given what you are trying to do, perhaps something like a Zoom R8 and a good set of headphones might be what you're looking for.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...E&gclsrc=aw.ds


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