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-   -   Neumann Microphone worth the price? (https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=477047)

Doug Young 07-22-2017 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jim1960 (Post 5417122)
.

I'd love to add a couple of quality ribbon mics to that list but my room, while treated, is too small to get good results. I don't have another room that would be any better, so I'm stuck for now. .

You might check out the AEA N22 someone mentioned above. I have a pair, and they sound very nice. They're designed for home studios with more challenged acoustics, which mostly means they allow you to mic *really* close. For me, they work best literally a few inches from the guitar. They have an extended frequency response, so they're not as dark as many ribbons, and still have that smooth ribbon sound. Nice mics.

Doug Young 07-22-2017 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ty Ford (Post 5416930)
Y
I didn't make a typo above. I do mean the AT5040.

Ty, you didn't mention guitar in that review unless I missed it. Did you have a chance to try the 5040 on acoustic? I've been intrigued by that one since it came out. I tried a pair of Sanken's with the rectangular diaphragm once - I think Fran came over and helped me audition them. Didn't keep those, but the idea's still interesting.

BTW, I recently picked up a 4050ST, which sounds quite good to me, as well. I got it thinking it'd be convenient to have a single stereo mic for videos. More in your "mid range" category, but it does what it's supposed to do.

jim1960 07-22-2017 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Young (Post 5417330)
You might check out the AEA N22 someone mentioned above. I have a pair, and they sound very nice. They're designed for home studios with more challenged acoustics, which mostly means they allow you to mic *really* close. For me, they work best literally a few inches from the guitar. They have an extended frequency response, so they're not as dark as many ribbons, and still have that smooth ribbon sound. Nice mics.

Thanks. I had thought about those at one point but I'm going to be patient on the ribbons until I have a bigger room. That should happen within two years. For now, I have a Gefell M295 pair that were also designed to work well up close.

My house right now is tiny ...less than 1000 sq ft. But my location makes it worth enough that I'll be able to sell it and buy something 3x the size. Right now, Asheville NC is on the top of my list, but I'm looking at other options too. The Chesapeake area looks very nice as well. Asheville ticks off more boxes though. I have a little time to figure it out ...time enough to shop for houses and ribbon mics.

Doug Young 07-22-2017 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jim1960 (Post 5417343)
Thanks. I had thought about those at one point but I'm going to be patient on the ribbons until I have a bigger room. That should happen within two years. For now, I have a Gefell M295 pair that were also designed to work well up close.

My house right now is tiny ...less than 1000 sq ft. But my location makes it worth enough that I'll be able to sell it and buy something 3x the size. Right now, Asheville NC is on the top of my list, but I'm looking at other options too. The Chesapeake area looks very nice as well. Asheville ticks off more boxes though. I have a little time to figure it out ...time enough to shop for houses and ribbon mics.

Heading to Asheville for a visit next week. In that case, I can also recommend the Royer SF24. I've kind of gone crazy with ribbon mics over the years, still more to try tho :-)

KevWind 07-22-2017 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alohachris (Post 5417300)
Aloha Fran,





Which mic's did I wish I'd never dumped?



A very nice pair of Peluso P-28 tube SDC mic's that I loved as well.

Guys, check out those Peluso P-28's. Great sleeper mic's for acoustic guitar & NOT expensive. Captures the real natural, fat sound of your guitar with no hype. Loves being paired with an A Designs Pacifica preamp.



alohachris

Chris curious how would you (unless you owned them too far apart) compare the Peluso P 28 to the Schoeps CM6 MK 4 or 41

alohachris 07-22-2017 06:39 PM

Aloha Kev
 
Aloha Kev,

IMO, the Schoeps CMC6 series of SDC's is simply the most accurate, musical, well-made, flexible & pristine SDC's I have ever used or owned.

Off axis - unbeatable. Balance - unmatched. Transparency, Quietness & Clarity - no competition to my ears. Modular design accommodating all kinds of top-rate capsules - the coolest. Such a large & incredible palate for the studio. I used the Schoeps MK 41 hypercardioid capsules often & sometimes the MK2 omni & MK8 ribbon capsules. I love Schoeps world:

http://www.schoeps.de/showroom/

Comparing the Peluso P-28 tube SDC to all that Schoeps offers is a little difficult. However, I sold mine off a couple years after my big gear purge 4-1/2 years ago because I just liked them. However, in it's price range, I think the P-28 is fantastic. Accurate, open sounding, a bit colored towards the lower mid-range, but almost imperceptibly so - and SMOOTH. Not edgy at all like a KM-184. The P-28 really can give you a smooth quality, unique recorded sound on many types of guitars.

As usual, I don't have any clips to share online. But I did remember this clip of the P-28 from Soundpure:

http://www.soundpure.com/p/peluso-p-...microphone/881

IMO, the P-28 has this very round fullness that beefs up an acoustic guitar, especially my small bodied ones & classical, without any wooliness or boominess. It works well placed far away from the guitar, but not as well for close-miking in X-Y. The P-28 might actually help a bright sounding guitar like some of the Taylor designs.

The P-28 might be a great match for your A Designs MP2a preamp, Kev (if you still use it). It loved both the Pacifica & Pendulum MDP-1a preamps I paired it with.

I'd stick with your CMC6 MK4, Kev. But if you want a slightly different, very neat sound, try the P-28, unusual in that it is a tube SDC. What's not to like? At least audition one. I liked it better than its price point SDC peers: Neumann KM184, AKG 480, Beyerdynamic 930 & Gefell 300 among others.

A strange analogy might be that the Peluso P-28 has a similar, unique effect on the lower mid-range frequencies as the Microtech-Gefell M295 has on trebles & upper mid's.

Eh, How are those Amphion monitors working for ya?

All the Best, Kev!

alohachris

PS: One last point: Peluso makes some great sounding mic's. But they haven't always been the most durable (can't drop them once) or "low self-noise" - Remember how "self-noisy" the CEMC6 specs were? -alohachris-

anton 07-22-2017 06:56 PM

Good thread. I have gone through a handful of mics, mostly staying under the $1K mark. In hindsight I probably should have bought once and just got what i wanted, rather than making little incremental jumps upward. I currently have a pair of Miktek C5's that I think sound pretty good, though part of me thinks their self noise is a bit high.



I lean towards the philosophy of buying the best you can afford, so if something like a Neumann is not a stretch you might as well give it a try. At least you will know the mic is not the weak link in your chain. I borrowed a pair of KM 184's and Gefell M300's a few years ago and thought they both sounded great.

jim1960 07-22-2017 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anton (Post 5417485)
Good thread. I have gone through a handful of mics, mostly staying under the $1K mark. In hindsight I probably should have bought once and just got what i wanted, rather than making little incremental jumps upward. I currently have a pair of Miktek C5's that I think sound pretty good, though part of me thinks their self noise is a bit high.



I lean towards the philosophy of buying the best you can afford, so if something like a Neumann is not a stretch you might as well give it a try. At least you will know the mic is not the weak link in your chain. I borrowed a pair of KM 184's and Gefell M300's a few years ago and thought they both sounded great.

That clip sounded very nice to me.

I'm of the same philosophy. As I've told more people than I can count, I've never once in my life regretted buying quality, but there have been many times I've cheaped out only to buy quality later. More often than not, cheaping out has cost me more money than had I bought quality the first time.

A lot of people have asked me advice on buying a guitar over the years. I tell them the same thing. You can find something decent to learn on for $200 but, if you can afford it, buy an instrument that will inspire you to play more.

Al Acuff 07-23-2017 09:20 AM

FWIW I started my home recording studio with an SM57, SM58 and an Apogee Duet. I upgraded in steps. I won't bore you with a list of my equipment but I will say that I learned a lot in the process.

At this point in time a Blackspade tube mic, a pair of Microtech Geffel UM70 mics, and a pair of AEA N22 mics are my favorites. I recently borrowed a brand new U87 from my lady friend. It's a good mic and it's well made. When we compared it to my Blackspade UM17R (Hardy M1 Preamp and Beyer headphones) we both preferred the Blackspade on her soprano and on my baritone.

Microtech Geffel microphones are the other Neumann microphones. They are worth considering too. If you research the history of Neumann microphones you'll learn how the two Neumann factories were separated during the cold war and became different companies. Neumann is now owned and operated by Sennheiser which is a big umbrella corporation. MG mics are still made by craftsmen who come from families that have worked at the Geffel factory for three generations.

ukejon 07-23-2017 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Young (Post 5417330)
You might check out the AEA N22 someone mentioned above. I have a pair, and they sound very nice. They're designed for home studios with more challenged acoustics, which mostly means they allow you to mic *really* close. For me, they work best literally a few inches from the guitar. They have an extended frequency response, so they're not as dark as many ribbons, and still have that smooth ribbon sound. Nice mics.

Doug, how does the Figure 8 pattern work in a less-than-ideal room? Aren't you picking up a lot of unwanted room noise on the back side of the mic?

Doug Young 07-23-2017 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ukejon (Post 5417988)
Doug, how does the Figure 8 pattern work in a less-than-ideal room? Aren't you picking up a lot of unwanted room noise on the back side of the mic?

It certainly will pickup from the back, but if you're close micing, the front will dominate. I wouldn't use one in a terrible space, like the bathroom, but if you can get half-way decent recordings in a space, they should work. There are a couple of nice videos of Wes Dooley talking about the intent of the mic and demoing in some home-studio like environments on You Tube.

Al Acuff 07-23-2017 10:31 AM

Here's a Youtube video recorded with an AEA N22 ribbon mic close up for vocals and a room mic for ambience. Great version of Tom Waits' The Briar and the Rose!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF87BBA4Id0

KevWind 07-23-2017 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alohachris (Post 5417470)
Aloha Kev,

IMO, the Schoeps CMC6 series of SDC's is simply the most accurate, musical, well-made, flexible & pristine SDC's I have ever used or owned.

Off axis - unbeatable. Balance - unmatched. Transparency, Quietness & Clarity - no competition to my ears. Modular design accommodating all kinds of top-rate capsules - the coolest. Such a large & incredible palate for the studio. I used the Schoeps MK 41 hypercardioid capsules often & sometimes the MK2 omni & MK8 ribbon capsules. I love Schoeps world:

http://www.schoeps.de/showroom/

Comparing the Peluso P-28 tube SDC to all that Schoeps offers is a little difficult. However, I sold mine off a couple years after my big gear purge 4-1/2 years ago because I just liked them. However, in it's price range, I think the P-28 is fantastic. Accurate, open sounding, a bit colored towards the lower mid-range, but almost imperceptibly so - and SMOOTH. Not edgy at all like a KM-184. The P-28 really can give you a smooth quality, unique recorded sound on many types of guitars.

A usual, I don't have any clips to share online. But I did remember this clip of the P-28 from Soundpure:

http://www.soundpure.com/p/peluso-p-...microphone/881

IMO, the P-28 has this very round fullness that beefs up an acoustic guitar, especially my small bodied ones & classical, without any wooliness or boominess. It works well placed far away from the guitar, but not as well for close-miking in X-Y. The P-28 might actually help a bright sounding guitar like some of the Taylor designs.

The P-28 might be a great match for your A Designs MP2a preamp, Kev (if you still use it). It loved both the Pacifica & Pendulum MDP-1a preamps I paired it with.

I'd stick with your CMC6 MK4, Kev. But if you want a slightly different, very neat sound, try the P-28, unusual in that it is a tube SDC. What's not to like? At least audition one. I liked it better than its price point SDC peers: Neumann KM184, AKG 480, Beyerdynamic 930 & Gefell 300 among others.

A strange analogy might be that the Peluso P-28 has a similar, unique effect on the lower mid-range frequencies as the Microtech-Gefell M295 has on trebles & upper mid's.

Eh, How are those Amphion monitors working for ya?

All the Best, Kev!

alohachris

PS: One last point: Peluso makes some great sounding mic's. But they haven't always been the most durable (can't drop them once) or "low self-noise" - Remember how "self-noisy" the CEMC6 specs were? -alohachris-

Hey thanks for the in depth comparison I have only ever had two different SDC's one was a mic I used live which was Shure KSM 109 and then I also have one Schoeps CM6MK4 and will probably just get another .

The Amphions are outstanding and will be the monitors I keep for certain.

StrummerLovin 07-24-2017 04:39 AM

Wow, by the time I finished reading this the thread got a life of its own! Thanks for the in depth review mate, really helpful!

Trevor B. 07-24-2017 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ty Ford (Post 5416930)
Yah know, I wouldn't kick an AudioTechnica AT4060 or AT5040 out of bed either. AT makes mostly mid range mics, but from time to time they flex their design muscles pop out a stunner just to show they can.

I didn't make a typo above. I do mean the AT5040.

https://tyfordaudiovideo.blogspot.co...hragm.html?m=1

Regards,

Ty Ford

Thanks for sharing your review of the AT 5040. My recently underworked radar had not picked up on it. At this microphone's price point I consider it a high ender but based on what I'm hearing the AT 5040 is not at all overpriced. I found the video below which showcases the AT 5040 on acoustic guitar (sorry; it's youtube video) Despite the obvious limitations it sounds really good to me.


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