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Brevver2 01-10-2021 06:23 PM

Martin 000/OM question
 
Hi there,

I'm hoping to put a question out to any Martin 000/OM owners out there.

I've been on the guitar hunt lately and for obvious reasons I haven't been able to try a whole lot of guitars. I have, however, gotten the opportunity to play several Martin and Eastman guitars. I'm looking for a smaller bodied guitar but I have previously only ever played dreadnoughts and I'm noticing something with the 000/OM body shape.

It seems to me that, to differing degrees, a lot of these sized guitars have a fairly boomy A string compared to the low E. This is especially obvious when playing bass notes on these strings with thumb (no nails). I play with the guitar tuned down a full step and I can feel it really thump on the A string (tuned to G) from the open string to the 3rd fret, in comparison with a drop-off in energy on the low E string on these frets. The low E does have a similar boom when I get up the fretboard to the equivalent notes. It was really noticeable on an otherwise beautiful 000 28.

Is this just a consequence of the body size/shape? I've read similar posts describing wolf notes and sympathetic resonances but I'm not sure if that adds up given how it affects multiple notes. I'm mainly wondering if this is something I should just accept on a guitar this size (I noticed it on several models) or if it's exemplary of a bad/weak model. Can I expect to find a Martin 000 28 with as much power on the lower bass notes?

Thanks for the help!

Roccorobb 01-10-2021 06:56 PM

Stick your face in the sunshine and sing. You roll find the body he's a resonant peak somewhere around a low F#. It may be higher or lower, which will affect low end tone.

I have one guitar with a resonant peak at G and it is the one out of my collection with the least low end, especially evident on the low e string. I also have one guitar with a peak at a low e. It has massive low end, sometimes too much. There are many elements that go into a guitar's tone, but I have found this simple peak resonance to be an important factor in low-end power specifically. In my very limited anecdotal experience, the lower the peak pitch, the more the low e string will give up the goods.

loco gringo 01-10-2021 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roccorobb (Post 6601147)
Stick your face in the sunshine and sing.

Words to live by, right there.

Stevien 01-10-2021 10:36 PM

Originally Posted by Roccorobb:
"Stick your face in the sunshine and sing."

Words to live by, right there.

..... and the only part of his post I understood. To original poster; most likely you're used to the low E string really booming. Dreds will always have much more boom in the low end than an OM or 000. Nature of the beast. If you're used to a dread & switch to an OM or 000, it will seem like something is missing, until you get used to it. Mid sized guitars are more balanced across the range, where dreds are ground shakers.
Steve

djcarolino 01-10-2021 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shane Lester (Post 6601126)
Hi there,

I'm hoping to put a question out to any Martin 000/OM owners out there.

I've been on the guitar hunt lately and for obvious reasons I haven't been able to try a whole lot of guitars. I have, however, gotten the opportunity to play several Martin and Eastman guitars. I'm looking for a smaller bodied guitar but I have previously only ever played dreadnoughts and I'm noticing something with the 000/OM body shape.

It seems to me that, to differing degrees, a lot of these sized guitars have a fairly boomy A string compared to the low E. This is especially obvious when playing bass notes on these strings with thumb (no nails). I play with the guitar tuned down a full step and I can feel it really thump on the A string (tuned to G) from the open string to the 3rd fret, in comparison with a drop-off in energy on the low E string on these frets. The low E does have a similar boom when I get up the fretboard to the equivalent notes. It was really noticeable on an otherwise beautiful 000 28.

Is this just a consequence of the body size/shape? I've read similar posts describing wolf notes and sympathetic resonances but I'm not sure if that adds up given how it affects multiple notes. I'm mainly wondering if this is something I should just accept on a guitar this size (I noticed it on several models) or if it's exemplary of a bad/weak model. Can I expect to find a Martin 000 28 with as much power on the lower bass notes?

Thanks for the help!

I'm on the hunt for a Martin OM/000-28 as well and I am in the same boat as you. Mostly every 000-28 I play no matter used or new, have the same boomy A note. Most OM-28's I've tried are more balanced as there more bass response in the F# to G on the low E. I'm leaning toward the OM as I like to tune to drop D and D standard occasionally, however playability is way nicer on the 000.

blindboyjimi 01-11-2021 10:43 PM

I play primarily OMs/000-14 and 000-12 guitars. I donít think I understand what you are implying. Youíre saying that the A string is boomy but the E isnít?

The scale length is the same and the string diameter/weight is obviously larger on the Bass E therefore the tone must be louder on the E than the A. The only thing I can think is that if you are a dread player then you may be accustomed to hearing a very bass heavy guitar so that when you hear a more balance guitar, you are hearing a lack of bass.

The short scale 00 is generally considered the most even and balanced guitar but obviously different models, and manufacturers will all vary some. The next bass heavy will be the 000-14 (short scale, 000 body), then the OM (000 body, 14 fret, long scale), followed by the 000-12 (enlongated body, long scale, 12 fret body), the 0000/M/J sizes in long scale with 16Ē lower bouts and long scale but skinny waists, and then the dreadnaught. So going from a dreadnaught to an 000-14 is a big drop in bass compared to the midrange.

Roccorobb 01-12-2021 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loco gringo (Post 6601161)
Words to live by, right there.

Hahaha it should have said "soundhole" but my phone's auto correct might have a point.

Roccorobb 01-12-2021 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stevien (Post 6601284)
Originally Posted by Roccorobb:
"Stick your face in the sunshine and sing."

Words to live by, right there.

..... and the only part of his post I understood. To original poster; most likely you're used to the low E string really booming. Dreds will always have much more boom in the low end than an OM or 000. Nature of the beast. If you're used to a dread & switch to an OM or 000, it will seem like something is missing, until you get used to it. Mid sized guitars are more balanced across the range, where dreds are ground shakers.
Steve

Wow! My original post really got garbled. It ought to have said, "you will find that the body has a resonant peak somewhere around a low F#." That is to say, if you stick your face in the sound hole and start singing at the same pitch as your low a string, and slowly lower the pitch, at some point you will find the whole body of the guitar resonating. That resonant peak has a lot to do with how your guitar reflects low end energy. In my limited experience, a guitar with a resonant peak at a lower frequency will be perceived to have more low end energy.

Still clear as mud?

godfreydaniel 01-12-2021 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shane Lester (Post 6601126)
Hi there,

I'm hoping to put a question out to any Martin 000/OM owners out there.

I've been on the guitar hunt lately and for obvious reasons I haven't been able to try a whole lot of guitars. I have, however, gotten the opportunity to play several Martin and Eastman guitars. I'm looking for a smaller bodied guitar but I have previously only ever played dreadnoughts and I'm noticing something with the 000/OM body shape.

It seems to me that, to differing degrees, a lot of these sized guitars have a fairly boomy A string compared to the low E. This is especially obvious when playing bass notes on these strings with thumb (no nails). I play with the guitar tuned down a full step and I can feel it really thump on the A string (tuned to G) from the open string to the 3rd fret, in comparison with a drop-off in energy on the low E string on these frets. The low E does have a similar boom when I get up the fretboard to the equivalent notes. It was really noticeable on an otherwise beautiful 000 28.

Is this just a consequence of the body size/shape? I've read similar posts describing wolf notes and sympathetic resonances but I'm not sure if that adds up given how it affects multiple notes. I'm mainly wondering if this is something I should just accept on a guitar this size (I noticed it on several models) or if it's exemplary of a bad/weak model. Can I expect to find a Martin 000 28 with as much power on the lower bass notes?

Thanks for the help!

Over the years Iíve noticed many guitars (of different sizes) have a relatively more resonant A string than the E string. I notice it mostly when the open E and A are played. Iím a fingerpicker, it may not be as noticeable when using a flat pick.

SalFromChatham 01-12-2021 03:48 PM

I owned an 2015 000-18 and a 2019 000-28 (both "redesigned"). Neither were unbalanced. The only thing I found was that the 000-18 was a better strummer, drier, and had a nice thump. The 000-28 was more melodic and sustained.

The next time I buy a guitar I will sing into the soundhole at different pitches, and hopefully the shop won't correct me by telling me that I am supposed to use a pick or my fingers...

DesmondWafers 01-12-2021 04:06 PM

If it's on a wide range of notes it's not going to be an issue with resonant frequency/wolf notes. I've had instances where the wolf note can be somewhere in between and it affects 2 different notes, but on a range of 3-4 notes I don't think that would be the case.

Brevver2 01-12-2021 04:33 PM

Thanks for the replies everyone! I could certainly do with more singing in the sunshine!

I took Roccorobb's advice and they were absolutely correct. The instrument responds loud and clear on the 2 notes giving me the most boom - G and Ab. I might have overstated saying it was 4 notes (so possibly that doesn't rule out a wolf note?).

I've checked and found something similar on my other guitars - just not to the same extent. I guess it is just a resonant peak that falls in an inconvenient place. In my attempts to record the instrument it has been a real pain - not balanced.

For an 000 28 owners out there - Have you experienced anything similar?

I'm curious as to whether something like this is consistent across specific models. Is there any predictability with this sort of thing? Does the resonant area move around or is it fixed as a result of the build specs? Of the few 000s I've tried, they all more or less have the same issue. Maybe it's just less noticeable on a larger guitar where it falls on the lowest notes.

Shredmaster007 01-12-2021 07:26 PM

I put medium-lights (54, 44-12) on my OM21 and it gave a response closer to my Takamine dread that has plain lights (53-12). I think the OM might actually be louder / project more than the dread - it definitely has more mid / lower-mid frequencies.

jp2558 01-12-2021 08:52 PM

If you are trying 000 and OM styles, you owe it to yourself to also check out the M-36.

wguitar 01-12-2021 09:51 PM

FWIW, you may want to at least play a mini-jumbo or 2. They are much more comfortable to play than a dread and have a bigger sound than an 000 or OM. This, of course, is an over generalization as guitars vary, but worth in a look in my opinion.

Good luck!


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