Home recording studio, I'm soooo lost !!!
 

I've just been to hell and back. After months of on-line research, my eyes are changing holes and my head is spinning. I must have read every page on Tweakheadz.com, Gearslutz.com, and more, and I STILL don't have a clue where I wanna (or need to) go with home recording? According to all the vendors, THEIRS is the greatest piece of equipment ever manufactured, and totally user-friendly.(yaaaaaa, right!!!)

Back-track; I'm a geezer who grew up in an analogue world. To me, the world of home-recording seems populated by geeks speaking to other geeks. After immersing myself in this digital recording world for the last few months, I can't believe I'm actually starting to understand some of this stuff, but none the less, I'm still hopelessly lost.

Yes, I understand the importance of A/D conversion, and D/A conversion, and I've looked at everything from 2-channel desk-top units costing $400. to Apogee Symphony systems with their AD-16x and DA-16x converters costing $7,000.' pair. Argh!!!!!!!!! That's just the TIP of the iceberg too. There's the super-duper monster PC with multi-terrabyte drives, Quad-Core processors, word-clocks, plug-ins, ProTools, Logic, Cubase, Sonar, (you name it). And of course, all this gear works soooo seamlessly, right ??? Whether you're running Windows or OS whatever, it's totally compatible, right? (arghhhhh!!!!!)

Regardless, I'm going to press on, but I get the feeling I've simply got to get my feet wet, and jump in. Point is, where the heck do I start? I don't care about "cheap". I learned a long time ago that you buy once/ cry once. I want something stable and glitch-free (if possible). Budget is VERY flexible, and I'll spend what I have to spend, in order to get this right.

Now, I realize I need good mics and a decent pre-amp. I've pretty well decided to buy a Shure KSM44 LDC mic, a matched pair of Shure KSM141's, and an SM7. I also have an Allen & Heath MixWiz3 16:2 and a bunch of other "live sound" mics including Shure SM-57, SM-58, SM-58 Beta, SM-87 Beta, Sennheiser MD 416-u, and MD 402-k. That collection will grow over time, I'm sure. For now, I'm happy with that selection.(I think ;) ). Now, before I go spending $2k-$3k on a mic-preamp, I'd like to use the MixWiz3. How do I get the output into the computer? I presume I need an interface unit, but which one? Remember, I want trouble-free/glitch-free if possible. Eventually, I'd like to add a separate preamp, possibly a Pendulum Audio MDP-1a (??) or similar. Again, I'd need an interface of similar quality, but which way to go?

I'm probably going to buy a separate computer, possibly a Mac, used strictly for the studio. I'd LOVE to avoid latency wherever possible. I've thought of trying GarageBand to get started, then progressing to Logic 8. Make sense so far?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts,

Bob

Bobby,

I might be able to help a bit, but I would like to know a bit more about your situation before doing so.

1) What is the maximum number of tracks that you will be recording at the same time?

2) What will you be recording?

3) Describe the room(s) you will be using for recording, mixing, etc.

4) What is the ultimate purpose/intended use of the recordings?

Thanks.

Bob, you're just going to get a bunch of different answers here too, you know.

I'm using a pc with a dual-core processor. I haven't had any real problems with it keeping up. I used 10 audio tracks on one song (my max so far), and it has no problem keeping up. I think I'd have to substantially increase that number before I started having problems.

For a computer interface I'm using the Lexicon Omega:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/produ...dio?sku=245505

It's fairly cheap, and comes with the mic preamps built in. It also comes prepackaged with Cubase LE, which will most likely suit your DAW needs, at least in the beginning. I have since upgraded to Cubase Studio4, thinking it'd make adding midi instruments easier. (I could have been wrong about the "easier" part.)

For mics I'm using a Shure KSM27 ldc, and a pair of Rode NT-5 sdc's. I also use a Shure beta 58 for background vocals, in part to give them a different sound, and partly because I find it easier to sing with a hand held mic.

You don't have to spend a ton of money to get a nice recording set up. If you were looking for my opinion, I'd suggest starting off moderately, and then later, after you got your feet wet, start thinking about upgraded mic preamps and so forth. For what it's worth, I seriously doubt I'll ever spend big bucks on better preamps, because I'm satisfied with the sound I'm getting. (Any dissatisfaction is coming from my abilities, not from the equipment.)

This is a thread I want to watch!
Rather than lard it up with all of my variables, I am anxious to see what you two discuss. I've got the MAC....just need to build system up from the source (6 and 12 guitars, mando, octave mando, maybe some djembe, tambourine, keyboard and vocals); so, I will be shopping soon for mics, preamp, interface and the right app (leaning towards Garage Band). Oh, headphones as well!

Dave

Bump to listen. I need to learn about this one!

it is mind boggling how many paths you can choose from. i bought a protools mbox2 and have been happy with everything except the mic pre's and the headphone monitoring. so i bought external mic pre's as an upgrade but still had to pass the signal thru the mbox's pre's (which defeats the purpose). so then i got an a/d converter so i could bypass the mbox pre's altogether by going into the mbox digitally. now i'm happy but i took a roundabout way of getting there (and i've still got a somewhat lousy headphone monitoring situation).

you can click on the "my songs" link below and check out a few of my recordings. they were all done on the mbox2 in a small 10x12 bedroom, using external pre's and converter.

best of luck in your search,

bill

Are you looking for a cheap alternative or something really professional? It's all what you make of it. I use a firepod, Adobe Audition 1.5, and 3 microphones to do my acoustic stuff. After I get the mics I want, it will be : $400 for firepod (with free AT2020), Adobe Audition I believe is $100-150, and two more Rode NT1A mics for $550 for a matched pair. As far as I'm concerned, I don't need much more as far as my recording career goes. So that's about $1000 to have a really solid sound.

Adobe Audition is quite a capable program, maybe not as powerful as Cubase blah blah, but for the price I think it is great. You can compress tracks, EQ them, add reverb, all sorts of things.

I can already get some very listenable recordings with an SM57 and 58 on my acoustic guitar, which definitely for recording purposes isn't as good as a condenser.

Remember the room is important too. I have a small room full of furniture with a carpet on the floor (bedroom) and it's pretty much dead. I'll be taking some of the furniture out and taking out the carpet this summer.

Cliffnotes - for $1k you can have a very capable studio!

Here are words you can count on:

1. You can't get the best system because it doesn't exist. All there are are systems built by people who have chosen to make their compromises in places that make them comfortable. You just need to try to find the components that will make YOU comfortable.
2. You simply have to pick a price point, read up as best you can, absorb the stuff, get a few opinions (that you are willing and able to ignore), and dive in.
3. The best system YOU can put together is the one that makes YOU comfortable.
4. Remember to make YOUR studio reflect YOUR personality and be comfortable to YOU.
5. Buy what you like and like what you buy. That'll make you more content.
6. The guy down the street has a nicer system than you. If he doesn't, he will.
7. It won't be as easy as they make it out to be. :)
8. You will make mistakes. The guy down the street did, too.

Have FUN!
Bob

I don't necessarily buy into the buy once, cry once. I used to subscribe to that philosophy, but found many times I had bought something that was "the best" only to find out later I needn't have spent all that money. Fact is you've got an incredible collection of mics already, what you need to spend time is the PC software, as you have stated you are not computer friendly. This is critical, choosing the software, as that is where you will spend the most time.

Dive in, if you already have a PC with a soundcard, get an inexpensive preamp or mixer ($60 tops), plug in and try some software. Reaper and Audacity are free. Find a software with a good support forum to help you along.

Start experimenting, see what you like, what you want to do, and then go after the expensive gear as you learn the craft. Yes, expensive gear will give you better recordings, but you'll be amazed the quality you get with cheap stuff.

My 2 cents...

BTW, here's some covers I recorded with an inexpensive Behringer mixer, a Shure 58 & MXL 990/991, n-track software, and a soundblaster sound card.

My Covers

If you just want a simple recording capability without multitrack capability, the Zoom H2 is great ! You can go straight to MP3 or WAV onto then onto your PC.

For multitracking, the Zoom HD16CD looks great... never tried one, but I might.

Good luck !

I went down this road a couple of years ago i decided that not knowing alot about computers wasn't going to stop me recording.i bought a fostex vf160 it can record 8 tracks simultaneously all you need apart from the digital recorder is a power source or pa and speakers.it has onboard mixing and if you want you can save the tracks as wave files burn them onto a disc and then load onto a pc.also has onboard burner.they might be out of your price range but i believe in playing your instrument is more enjoyable instead of playing around with a computer.and most digital recorders are reasonably simple to use.

Hi sdelsolray,

You know what? I'm not sure I can even answer your first question properly. Why, because it's occured to me that I don't fully understand the process, the methodology, or the possibilities. Off-hand, I'd say no more than 1 or 2 tracks at a time, if recording in stereo. I want to record mostly acoustic guitar, and do some singing. Sometimes, I'll be recording with friends playing/singing along. At some point along the way, I'd like to add harmony, a rhythm track, maybe a bass-line, and occasionally some drums. From the little I've seen so far, it appears the software will add the drums for me if so desired, or even the bass track.

Basically, I want to record for my own enjoyment, and share some cd's with friends. I realize I don't need much in order to address my basic requirements or needs, but I want to take it up a notch or two as far as sound quality is concerned, especially the mics and mic-pre, and quality of effects. Initially, I'll be recording in a small room, roughly 12' x 11', w/8' ceilings. I have yet to decide exactly where my recording set-up will be. Space, is something I have plenty of.

I gotta run. I'm at work right now, but I'll be back later this evening.

Bob

You are so right there FingerPlucked. Back in the mid 70's, I spent a month recording roughly 10-12 songs on a cheapo stereo-casette recorder, and the final results were quite astonishing. One of my buddies heard it, and for a while, refused to believe that it was me playing and singing. He was sure it was a group. I guess the finger-picking may have given him that impression. Anyway, it was amazing to see how important mic placement was for that recording. I must have tried dozens of positions before I got it right, and when I got there, wow!!! This was with the cheapo mic that came with the Lloyd's combo record-player/AM-FM radio/cassette player/recorder. The whole unit cost probably $100. ;)

Bob

Here are a few things that could hopefully help you out! I AM NOT A PRO by any means, I'm just throwing around some ideas that you can look into. It sounds like you don't want a big hassle with all this converting jibba jabba.

Computer - Whatever you want, a mac will be more money, but you make like them better. The important things are:

A decent sized hard drive (the one on my computer is 750 gigs, wavs saved at very high quality can go up to 100 megs each).

Some good RAM, I would recommend at least 2 gigs, this is sort of the benchmark now anyways.

A nice processor speed, my computer uses an intel Core 2 duo 2.66 ghz I believe?

A nice sized screen. The monitor I bought for my computer is 22" and it makes the whole experience much more enjoyable.

The computer speed will let you record at a lower latency, obviously a good thing!

It sounds like you have quite a few mics already, this is good. Varieties are great, and there's no one mic for one purpose.

If you're looking into a mixer, try looking at the Mackie 1220 and 1620. They are cheap (the 1620 has 8 inputs and is under $1000).

I'm not sure how the pros record. But Firewire is EXTREMELY easy. Those Mackie mixers can have an optional firewire card, in which case here is the process of recording:
Playing with Fire(wire)
---Install the software
---Plug it into your computer
---Open your software, and set the inputs to the inputs you are using for microphones
---Hit record, (with the 1620, you could do 8 tracks at a time if you wanted)
---After you're done, you just save the files as .wav files to your computer
---When everything is complete (after EQing, compression, reverb, etc), you can "mix it down" which will put the whole song as one file. Kabam! Now just ship it off to your local label and wait to get famous

Some other things to look into are compressors too. If you look on my soundclick - (www.soundclick.com/ericsarno), you can hear what I have achieved with the firepod, At2020, and SM57 / 58. Jersey Shores, Sweet Enemy, and California Sound are the ones that I have used it for, not the Kaitlyn song up there. I think it sounds pretty listenable (quality-wise, not musically) and with the equipment you want to get, your friends would be more than delighted to listen to it.

Again, I'm not a pro, just some 20 year old kid doin the same thing you are! Hop you at least get some ideas.

Sounds familiar. I'm basically looking at a similar scenario right now. I've got the mic pres in my A&H MixWiz3 which I'd like to try, and I want to try a nice tube preamp like the Pendulum Audio MDP-1.

Bob