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Scotch 04-22-2013 02:47 AM

Guitar and Vocal training.
 
Hello folks.

I've been playing guiar for 5 years and within that time i've always kept an idea what i want to achieve and it was to be able to listen to a song and play it back. I've seen where i can define chords when i hear them but still struggle which key they are in, i can hear certain notes but still sturggle to play back a simple melody.
I know some people are naturally gifted to this to an extent but for someone with no musical background or talents is there way to quicken this or will as it always be just to take my time?

Also in recent time i've started to come off my difficult arrangements and now go into singing. It's not a where i want to sing well. I want to sing a song well enought where people find me bareable :) I particullarly sing some modern folk/ indy stuff bu mainly country so John Mayer, Brad Paisley, Johnny Cash. Just some to give you an idea. Problem is i don't have access to a singing teacher, if i did i would go ahead. Also i don't have the biggest pocket to spend money on equipment etc.
I would love to find a way just to let me know if i'm in key or if i just sound okay.

Thanks folks.

stanron 04-22-2013 03:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scotch (Post 3443930)
Hello folks.

I've been playing guiar for 5 years and within that time i've always kept an idea what i want to achieve and it was to be able to listen to a song and play it back. I've seen where i can define chords when i hear them but still struggle which key they are in, i can hear certain notes but still sturggle to play back a simple melody.

Nine times out of ten the key note is the note the tune ends on, but watch out for key changes.

One way of learning tunes is to play along with the radio. Here's a trick, quite often in a song the singer sings a line and then leaves a gap for a few bars. During those few bars try and copy the vocal line. If you can't do this with live radio, try doing it with recordings of the track and pause the recording after a short phrase and try and duplicate that phase. It is hard work at first but it will get easier with practice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scotch (Post 3443930)

Also in recent time i've started to come off my difficult arrangements and now go into singing. It's not a where i want to sing well. I want to sing a song well enought where people find me bareable :) I particullarly sing some modern folk/ indy stuff bu mainly country so John Mayer, Brad Paisley, Johnny Cash. Just some to give you an idea. Problem is i don't have access to a singing teacher, if i did i would go ahead. Also i don't have the biggest pocket to spend money on equipment etc.
I would love to find a way just to let me know if i'm in key or if i just sound okay.

Thanks folks.

As for singing, in the old days I would have recommended recording yourself singing and playing on a cassette recorder. Today there is probably an application for a smart phone to do simple recordings on. If listening to yourself singing to the guitar doesn't help try recording yourself singing along with the record. You are looking for things to improve. Remember also that everybody hates hearing themselves sing at first. The sound in the air is not the same as the sound in your head. The recording is honest if sometimes frightening.

Scotch 04-22-2013 03:52 AM

When i first started to play i used to do that alot. Sit and play try to play melodys or chords etc. Was very difficult but very gratifying once you achieved something.

Yeah i've tried recording myself few times. It's kind of doubt listening to yourself and you think i don't sound that bad because when singing i believe i was doing okay. Real kick in the teeth :( makes you want to stop being you're in doubt you would like a second opinion but trying to find that is difficult.

mikealpine 04-22-2013 05:00 AM

Guitar and Vocal training.
 
I bought a program called Singing Success. If you catch a sale and look for web coupons you're into it for about $150 - $175. Lots of scales to sing along with and a workbook to tell you their particular points. It's based on Speech Level Singing and you can search that. The exercises alone are worth it. As you get used to doing the exercises and matching the notes, you'll find it easier to sing tunes with the right notes.

Scotch 04-22-2013 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikealpine (Post 3443987)
I bought a program called Singing Success. If you catch a sale and look for web coupons you're into it for about $150 - $175. Lots of scales to sing along with and a workbook to tell you their particular points. It's based on Speech Level Singing and you can search that. The exercises alone are worth it. As you get used to doing the exercises and matching the notes, you'll find it easier to sing tunes with the right notes.

I think i may actually have those book and sound files. Just if i heard the authors name i could say.

Problem is i never do excerices i just sing the songs. I really should do the scales but i can't do a whole scale.

Stiv123 04-22-2013 05:49 AM

I'd like to share the most important piece of vocal advice I ever got. Many, many years ago, when I was 19, I went to vocal trainer. I expected to practice scales, diaphragm control, voice placement and things like that. Although we did some of that, we mostly practiced song expression.

He told me one thing that stuck with me for the rest of my career -- only sing songs you can personally relate to. Express the words as they mean something to you. You have to feel the lyrics; you have to believe them. If you don't, you're just mouthing somebody else's empty words.

Something interesting happens when you take that approach. Your set stops being an empty collection of pop tunes and starts being a personal expression. You never forget the lyrics anymore, because they start to mean something. Your music starts being about you.

Scotch 04-22-2013 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StivMacRae (Post 3444009)
I'd like to share the most important piece of vocal advice I ever got. Many, many years ago, when I was 19, I went to vocal trainer. I expected to practice scales, diaphragm control, voice placement and things like that. Although we did some of that, we mostly practiced song expression.

He told me one thing that stuck with me for the rest of my career -- only sing songs you can personally relate to. Express the words as they mean something to you. You have to feel the lyrics; you have to believe them. If you don't, you're just mouthing somebody else's empty words.

Something interesting happens when you take that approach. Your set stops being an empty collection of pop tunes and starts being a personal expression. You never forget the lyrics anymore, because they start to mean something. Your music starts being about you.

I personally only try to sing songs which i love, even some where you listen and you get those tingles because well it emotally hits you.

To extent i understand but i would to be able to sing to extent. I try simple songs like The Lumineers - Ho Hey. Most other songs i sing may be too high for me. I find i naturally can get into a John Mayer song but that's me playing and singing not me recording so that could be a total lie. I just can hear me playing the first chord and singing the line while in key no big vibration difference if you understand.


Sorry if this doesnt make sense just at work. So trying to rush it :)

Davis Webb 04-22-2013 06:23 AM

Hey, good question, and one that comes up here frequently. Do a search in the forums for singing, how to sing, learning to sing. You will find a wealth of information on the topic.

Anyone can learn to sing. Its a skill. There are fundamentals and exercises and a natural learning progression. The good voices you hear on the radio are trained voices. David Crosby, for example, grew up in church choirs and had 15 years of experience singing before he hit the stage.

So, yes you can do it. The only question is how much work you can put into it.Treat your voice like the guitar, a new instrument.

Scotch 04-22-2013 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davis Webb (Post 3444028)
Hey, good question, and one that comes up here frequently. Do a search in the forums for singing, how to sing, learning to sing. You will find a wealth of information on the topic.

Anyone can learn to sing. Its a skill. There are fundamentals and exercises and a natural learning progression. The good voices you hear on the radio are trained voices. David Crosby, for example, grew up in church choirs and had 15 years of experience singing before he hit the stage.

So, yes you can do it. The only question is how much work you can put into it.Treat your voice like the guitar, a new instrument.

I had wee look through the pages. Got to one, problem was 90% comments were go get a tutor etc which wasn't the best advice for my case but i'll do a quick search after this reply. It's not having a trained voice but singing to something confidently and knowing you are doing the right things. Like playing a solo instrumental arrangement, making sure bass, rhythem, melody is all played. Just i enjoy it and would bring more to the table of playing guitar and othe string instruments.

I hope i don't treat my voice like a guitar. First guitar didn't play it for 3 days because i didn't know how to tune the thing :)

Thanks for reply

YamaYairi 04-22-2013 06:52 AM

If you tell us where you are located maybe a forum member with some vocal coaching skills can help you. It's not a thing you can learn from a book. Proper vocal technique requires one on one teaching, so the teacher can see your posture, how you breath how your stomach muscles are working, strain or tension in the throat and neck, and, of course, listen to your voice.
The most important part of proper singing is breathing and support. You have to support the breath with your diaphragm, which is located under your lungs and not, as many mistakenly believe, on your abdomen. The abs have to work with the diaphragm. There is a trick you can use to see how proper breathing should work. Lay down on the floor (on your back) and put your hand on your abdomen, breathing normally. You will feel your abdomen rise when you inhale and fall when you exhale. Notice your chest does not rise and fall. When you stand, you want to expand your chest, so your lungs can fill, and have your abdomen move in the same way as when lying down. That's about all I can tell you in text. You need a voice teacher in person to guide you properly.

Scotch 04-22-2013 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YamaYairi (Post 3444039)
If you tell us where you are located maybe a forum member with some vocal coaching skills can help you. It's not a thing you can learn from a book. Proper vocal technique requires one on one teaching, so the teacher can see your posture, how you breath how your stomach muscles are working, strain or tension in the throat and neck, and, of course, listen to your voice.
The most important part of proper singing is breathing and support. You have to support the breath with your diaphragm, which is located under your lungs and not, as many mistakenly believe, on your abdomen. The abs have to work with the diaphragm. There is a trick you can use to see how proper breathing should work. Lay down on the floor and put your hand on your abdomen, breathing normally. You will feel your abdomen rise when you inhale and fall when you exhale. Notice your chest does not rise and fall. When you stand, you want to expand your chest, so your lungs can fill, and have your abdomen move in the same way as when lying down. That's about all I can tell you in text. You need a voice teacher in person to guide you properly.

Well i live in Scotland. Hardly likely many will be here :)

Don't mean to sound so bad but reading all that was reason why i gave up months ago. Making seem so complex for something to enjoy. It's not like i'm bringing out my Celine Dion voice. Just good songs which have a story to them that doesn't have anything with crazy amount of vocal work.

But saying that if i met a vocal teacher and showed to me that did do alot of difference. But for my position it's making it too complicated.

YamaYairi 04-22-2013 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scotch (Post 3444046)
Well i live in Scotland. Hardly likely many will be here :)

Don't mean to sound so bad but reading all that was reason why i gave up months ago. Making seem so complex for something to enjoy. It's not like i'm bringing out my Celine Dion voice. Just good songs which have a story to them that doesn't have anything with crazy amount of vocal work.

But saying that if i met a vocal teacher and showed to me that did do alot of difference. But for my position it's making it too complicated.

It's easier than it sounds. That's why I said it needs to be done in person. I am sure there are vocal teachers in Scotland. Here in Cleveland we have the Cleveland Music School Settlement where you can get any kind of music lessons and the charge is based on your ability to pay. Maybe there is something like that in Scotland.

Scotch 04-22-2013 07:12 AM

There are some 20-30miles away. Just i cant squeeze those into the evening as travel would be too hectic.

If there were some in the town would be good but can't seem to find any vocal coachs.

Scotch 04-22-2013 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YamaYairi (Post 3444054)
It's easier than it sounds. That's why I said it needs to be done in person. I am sure there are vocal teachers in Scotland. Here in Cleveland we have the Cleveland Music School Settlement where you can get any kind of music lessons and the charge is based on your ability to pay. Maybe there is something like that in Scotland.

But is there anything else you can advice me in this situation?

Hotspur 04-22-2013 09:51 AM

To improve your ability to hear music and sing on-key, use the functional ear trainer, a free download from miles.be.

It's great, but realize that singing on key is only a small part of being a good singer, and that poor technique can make it hard to stay on key even if your ear is good.


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