|
Custom carbonfiber wood hybrid
Hello
This thread is about my new build, a hybrid between my failed crowdfunding campaign model called the Loosetop. It is now to expensive to continue that, so i have to adapt. That model was about a soundboard where the edges are not attached to the sides of the guitar, but that is not used on this model and thread. that can be found here : http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...45#post4162845 I will use only one componant of the Loosetop, called the unibody, it is a back, sides and a neck and head all in 1 carbon fiber componant. This carbon fiber componatn is made under vacuum, in a mold with the anti shape of the guitar part, this way the visible side will be smooth becasue it is being sucked against the mold. This componant is then cured in an oven. On this unibody , i will build a "regular" guitar, with a cedar soundboard and an ebony fingerboard. With this idea i hope to get the clarity and stability of carbon fiber and the warm sound of wood. I am now using an old prototype mold and when i get the desired sound and playability i will make a new mold for production. failed campaign: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/t...x/7621930#home materials for the new hybrid: -new drawing -stainless steel fretwire -harwood bindings and W/B/W purflings -blocked binding -ebony fingerboard,bridge and headplate -cedar soundboard -rosette http://i61.tinypic.com/25slz6a.jpg http://i62.tinypic.com/2sab193.jpg Making the mold stronger since i already had a mold warping under the heat. so i dumped a bunch of cement in there which is drying now Front : http://i59.tinypic.com/10yl9np.jpg backside : http://i61.tinypic.com/wwhlpz.jpg New workshop with sockets in the face : http://i58.tinypic.com/ncz1cn.jpg http://i57.tinypic.com/2d0075k.jpg |
This project is back on track! jeeeh!
Carbon fiber unibody (1 piece back, sides and neck) : https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_wANZbXAAALE8U.jpg:large https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_wAN9CWcAAGG-L.jpg:large https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_wAHKEWcAAf17_.jpg:large This unibody will recieve a cedar top, the 3rd picture shows some square wood that are being glued on the edge of the neck to give it a bit more gluing surface. Put sandpaper in the neck with the rough side up, and transfer the shape of the curve to the wooden strips. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_wEaJBXEAEivP7.jpg If all goes well this guitar will be featured in a crowdfunding campaign to get funds for an aluminium mold for professional production. It will be self heating with wires or even with high tech carbon nanocoating for uniform heating... The goal of this instrument is to combine the clarity of tone of carbon fiber (and dimentional stability) with the warmth of a cedar top. Stay tuned! (pun intended) ^_^ |
planed the wood :
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_0tOM9UsAElvA3.jpg:large https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_0tMNfU0AEe1A4.jpg:large Gluid the lining with 2500 psi glue : https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_18aaVUwAAW-XO.jpg:large The soundboard will be dropped inside this shape, that is why the lining is being glued under the edge, this way the carbon fiber its self is the shock absorber for accidental side impact. I also do not want to kill my routerbit on the carbon fiber. ( i am not aware of any existing carbide purfling routerbit). The purflings will be visible from the topview, and also the side of the fingerboard. |
this is a great project, refreshing approach.
good luck |
Quote:
I really took a long time to get over a failed crowdfunding campaign, for months i could not even look at a guitar. There is a 5 month gap between the start of this thread and re-energising this project. I had put every cent in a design that was not where it needed to be (needed more money and scientific research). I put 2 years full time in it and alot of money. In hindsight i should not have bought aero space grade carbon fiber but regular, and put cheap fiberglass between the layers. I spent 2 months, 14 hours per day, learning game dev, but it turns out i can not walk away from lutherie, i love it too much. |
It looks like an interesting project for sure. I wonder what you will do in the void in the neck area and headstock area? Truss rod? I would think the fretboard needs to be glued to a solid piece of wood if it going to be standard thickness which is generally 1/4 inch or less. Will you install a neck block to help keep string tension from causing movement? I am watching in curiosity. Mike
|
Quote:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_1OT4SWcAAxQH4.jpg:large I`m not 100% sure this is the solution because its round and it can bent, i might get a square tube instead and it will go throught the entire neck, all the way to where a guitar heel would be, behind the bridge. Also, this will be a nylon stringed instrument, so the tension is a bit less. |
Gluing the soundboard :
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_1kljbUgAAYN9S.jpg:large Very simple setup, I made it just little bit too small for the width of the wood like this : https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_1l5RkUwAAHBtY.png You have to feel that there is no edge for a good allignment. |
Ill start posting mistakes and learning experiences as well, maybe somebody can use it.
Here you can see airpockets between 2 layers, that is very bad. I made this unibody, and when it was fully cured realised it was to thin, also you could dent the back and it would make a super loud horribel noise when it popped back. Imagine if that happens when your buyer gives a live performance of classical music. So i decided to add 2 layers, when those were cured there was an inferior bond between the old and the new, so i pulled it off. That happened way to easy untill this point. I did not want to risk dissonant frequencies because of airpockets, or are airpockets an accidental discovery of genius?! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVCxXaRtWig:large https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_13ux2UwAAJA_j.jpg:large blablabla Lesson -----> a uniform epoxy matrix is vital. This is a prototype hybrid so its no biggy. I make mistakes in my prototype so the consumer version is good. Wood is very forgiving, carbon fiber in an epoxy matrix is all or nothing. This body has a few loose strands : https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_18jBtUYAAMOY9.jpg:large https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_18jkeVAAAxeBj.jpg:large I don`t know yet if i will keep it like this or cover it in flat black paint. Its really a waste to paint carbon fiber if its layd out properly (this is not). What do you guys think, keep it like this and buff it up to a shine, or paint it flat black? I don`t know if somebody will buy with the loose strands like this. These loose strands did give me an awesome idea for the future, maybe you could make art with loose carbon fiber strands and placing them in the mold first. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_15INTU0AAp8Z6.png:large |
Gluiing some reinforcement for the tuner holes (nylon style)
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_5dXHzWUAApwlx.jpg:large Glued soundboard pre-cleanup,some paper got stuck to the gluejoint (better paper then being attached to the glueing board) : https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_5dXlRWQAAjK9q.jpg:large |
|
How can i incoorporate more beautifull wood into a carbonfiber / wood hybrid?
A spruce or cedar top are vital for tone production, but visually it looses from koa in my own taste... That leads to the thought, how would a very thin koa veneer affect the sound? Or maybe an inlay, which i never put much time in, so i`m afraid it will look kitchy... |
Quote:
|
That leaves the fretboard and the headplate. :)
|
Gluing a pice of wood so that the tuners are not swimming in air.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_-6H_kWgAAVZRg.jpg:large The production model will not have this, that will have a jig to layer carbon fiber over, something like this https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_-_If0WQAACdQH.png:large That would be a bit too labour intensive for a 1 time prototype (make the reversed shape plug, seal the pores with epoxy or thick varnish, wax, make carbon fiber part). If you do it with a jig like this, you would have the cilinders and the headplate in 1 piece. If you use a steel plate or aluminium, you can let your logo shape raise out of the baseplate, and the carbon fiber will go around it. The cured part will have a hole with the shape of your logo inlay (no routing needed), just glue your logo in... That would be a job for a CNC machine, not many people are that accurate with hand tools., and you want the mould to last for a long time, so carving it out of wood isn`t an option really... The main goal is finding a good tone balance between the warmth of cedar wood soundboard and the clarity of carbon fiber. |
I glued a dark brown veneer inside the slots for the classical guitar (nylon strings :
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CAU5ALyVIAAfHnk.jpg:large https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CAU5CUkU0AEeB_k.jpg:large When you look at the back of the head you will only see carbon fiber, the slots for the classical guitar tuners are not visible from the back like this : https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CAVApAaW8AACtDQ.jpg:large Here are some different sound hole options, i am thinking about. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CAU68pPUUAAC3EY.jpg:large https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CAU7BwIUkAATH4N.jpg:large As stated earlyer, the body was to thin so it could be dented, thin is good for vibration, but a ploink sound when the back pops back is bad. This padouk wood strip will stop that. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CAU69ToUYAAaXUn.jpg:large Gluing it in : https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CAU76wBUUAAt-TD.jpg:large Neck mockup (sideview of the fingerboard with binding, and carbon fiber neck (not sure if i like it). https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CAU707_VEAEe5NW.jpg:large |
Padouk glued in :
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CAZlZQEUYAARnPk.jpg:large Preparing to put the dots in: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CAZlcQqVEAEtED2.jpg:large |
That Padauk strip does not look very thick. Doubt it will do much.
|
Quote:
It helped to get rid of the ploinky ploink. The layer was to thin so it could be dented. The padouk was only a measure to prevent the back from popping. the real model will have the proper thickness so this wood will no longer be needed. The back has an arch in it, so it is difficult to bend the wood against the arch. i made a before and after movie : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_sd...ature=youtu.be ---------- Glued the second strip : https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CAeZvq9UUAE8TZM.jpg:large Dots finished : https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CAeZwQBUcAA55g3.jpg:large |
Finally, after more then a week waiting i have my hollow carbonfiber 6x6mm square tube. This will resist the linear force of the string tension.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CAyt3lEUcAADJJ6.jpg:large I am using the big guns, hehe It is very important to use the proper glue for composit to composit, composit to wood, or composit to metal. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CAyt4MBU0AAm9S6.jpg:large There is another piece of wood on top of the carbonfiber tube. so the fingerboard has something under it. I am also thinking about injecting the rest of the neck with a carbon/wood epoxy pulp. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CAyt40TVIAAHByR.jpg:large I want to do a kickstarter to build new molds and enhance the overal production quality as well as buy cheaper materials (almost 40% when you buy 100m instead of 1m) . This crowdfunding campaign will feature a limited series of a maximum of 8 guitars. I want to have the composit making/baking mold, a cutting mold and a glue mold. Then the parts can hop from one to another, this will save alot of time and improve accuracy since all the tooling is dedicated per job... My new workspace allows for this all on 1 worksurface, the baking mold will roll on linear bearings into the oven. |
Decided to put the solid round bar in the opposite direction of the hollow square tube :
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CA85_6tXEAAlodD.jpg:large The fretboard will have support for downward force, all the way to the last fret. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CA86AZKWcAAUzKa.jpg:large Wrapped the juncture with loose carbonfiber strands saturated in epoxyglue. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CA86A93WwAAFQcs.jpg:large It sill start to look like a guitar soon, and then it will be a little bit more relatable then all this carbon stuff ^_^ I wanted to wait with shaping the soundboard untill i have the stability i`m after in the body, because the soundboard will be dropped into the body and i don`t want any gaps. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CA-EEO8VIAAvO79.jpg:large |
Shaped and fitted the cedar soundboard to fit exactly (no bindings yet)
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CBCHLEKU8AAtRWc.jpg:large |
Inlay the rosette :
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CBC6K3hU0AA0hCl.jpg:large https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CBC6KT5UUAArE5S.jpg:large https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CBDF31bU0AA-jH2.jpg:large https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CBDF4Y9UsAAjwW-.jpg:large https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CBDF5KPVEAEGpVK.jpg:large https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CBDF5S0VIAAtoZx.jpg:large Glue with epoxy glue with a black epoxy dye. Dont know if that was smart, black was coming through the rosette itsself, Thats why you prototype a model. I`ll try to clean it up tomorrow.^_^ https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CBDTStnW4AEkzcD.jpg:large Oldest clamps are the best, from a time where people made quality, and not profit junk. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CBDTTJDWEAIK-F2.jpg:large |
The guitar is currently 1449 gram (3.19449818 pounds).
This picture is from before the rosette inlay : https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CBCy7wyU8AAkyy1.jpg:large |
Cleaned up the rosette :
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CBHYtbAWQAE23Sk.jpg:large 1 layer of thin spray varnish to protect this delicate cedarwood for the next operations. You can dent this super fast. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CBIc-ERW4AMQNBF.jpg:large |
Quote:
There was a notorious phase in Guild's history when they were gluing bridges to finished soundboards. The result was that most of those bridges came unglued within a few short years. |
Quote:
That is correct, you should remove the varnish for the bridge. Some guitar companys use a router to get the finish off. I have even seen a youtube video of a japanese company where they use a chisl to get the varnish off. In my opion, Japanese chisels are the best, they are using the knowledge of their past in sword making in tools, like folding layers of steel and quenching the edge. Isn`t that amazing?! I`m gonna put the bridge on with 2500psi epoxy glue. I am now thinking if i should make an ebony bridge or a carbon fiber bridge. |
Bracing pattern with extremely thin pultruded carbon strips (0.6mm = 0.02 inches) :
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CBSXXrwUkAAQWrL.jpg:large reinforced all the cavitys in the head with industrial epoxy glue : https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CBXRZtbWEAE0FA_.jpg:large |
Carbon strips glued, extra glue in the sides, painted black, 2 clearcoats :
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CBXxu-YUsAAB6r6.jpg:large Removing the paint, cleargoat and glue along the edge (violin plane, the size of the last bit of your pinky finger) : https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CBX2iJAU8AEy7Z8.jpg:large Clean the entire lining and inside of the carbon fiber that extends upwards : https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CBX7Yf-WUAAjra2.jpg:large Gluing the soundboard on the unibody 2500 psi industrial glue and with binding tape (Didnt cut the soundhole yet for structural integrity and straight lines : https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CBYLOCxU0AAH9fs.jpg:large |
Did you put any arc on the top? What humidity level are you building in?
|
| All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:06 AM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, The Acoustic Guitar Forum