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-   -   Bourgeois, poor time to purchase? (https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=563324)

JerryM 11-10-2019 07:49 AM

Bourgeois, poor time to purchase?
 
Been considering the purchase of a Bourgeois Om one of my favorite makers, but feeling a bit uneasy about the future resale value if I decide to part with it later. Anyone else nervous about the future value of current USA models once the market gets hit with the Chinese models? From what I have found on the subject and reading the site info these new models will carry the Bourgeois name which concerns me a bit as the current om is not cheap, way over 5k and if new ones are floating around at half that next year may be a tough sell.
All procrastination but concerning and making my decision harder, I never make money on a resell and realize depreciation is reality but makes me nervous. Maybe nothing to worry about.:)

budglo 11-10-2019 07:55 AM

Honestly I have never made a purchase based on resale value. Guitars are a really poor investment anyways.

hamburg325 11-10-2019 07:57 AM

I think DB and Eastman will be careful not to erode the Bourgeois brand and heritage. DB currently has Pantheon as a partner, and no brand erosion has occurred.

As a first-time Bourgeois owner, I am hugely impressed by the artistry and tone of their instruments. If anything, the company will become even stronger.

PeteD 11-10-2019 07:59 AM

Consider buying a used and excellent condition Bourgeoise instead? Ride someone else's depreciation and see how you like it enough to buy new later after you watch th market. If you treat it well, you can probably be even or down just a few hundy in a year or two if you decide to sell the used one and buy a new one.

Methos1979 11-10-2019 08:00 AM

I seriously doubt an influx of Chinese Bourgeois guitars would affect resale value of a real Bourgeois. People who want and are willing to buy a US-made high-end guitar of any major brand aren't going to suddenly start buying Chinese alternatives. The bigger hit is buying anything new. You're going to get killed in when selling used regardless. Of the three or four major boutique brands (Collings, Bourgeois, Santa Cruz, Huss & Dalton) only the Collings seem to hold their values a little better. I don't see the Chinese models (of which I hadn't heard of) having any effect on your resale value. But you would be much better served to find yourself a nice used Bourgeois OM and then you wouldn't have to worry as much.

Kh1967 11-10-2019 08:00 AM

Interesting and valid question. The business person in me can relate.

That said, I stopped worrying about resale some time ago. I am a subscriber to the buy high, sell low club. :-)

Joking aside, I really do believe that buying a guitar that speaks to you is the most important thing. If you are moved buy one and can swing it financially, then go for it.

When I purchased my Bourgeois, I had that fleeting moment of "this will be an unmitigated financial disaster" should I ever sell. But, the tone was perfect to my ears and I have not regretted the decision.

Good luck to you...whatever you decide!

devellis 11-10-2019 08:02 AM

I very much doubt that the appearance of Asian instruments with a Bourgeois label will adversely impact the value of guitars made in Maine. Dana Bourgeois wouldn't have agreed to a deal that would have that impact. I think the Eastman-made Bourgeois guitars will have a distinct identity and people looking for one of the American-made models will know the difference. People who are just looking for a new guitar in a shop or online who don't understand the difference between lower priced imports and hand built guitars wouldn't be likely to shop in the price range of a Maine-built guitar whether there were Eastman-made versions available or not. People who buy Martin Authentics understand that they are different from the lowest-priced Martins in the same size and shape. I think the same will be true with Bourgeois guitars after their Eastman varieties appear.

More generally, if resale is your primary concern, you may be better off with a better known brand like Martin. Pretty much every guitar player has heard of them. Not so with Bourgeois. On the other hand, if you are primarily concerned with getting an outstanding instrument built in a small shop to the highest standards, than a Bourgeois deserves your full consideration.

sevenpalms 11-10-2019 08:05 AM

I think you have the right to worry and I feel the same way. I donít think I would buy a new one right now. Possibly used If you can find a good deal. Everybody has an opinion on this but I look at brands like Breedlove and just hope Bourgeois doesnít go down that same path.

KevWind 11-10-2019 08:10 AM

Can't answer specifically because I have never considered buying a guitar in anticipation of selling it.
But in general speculation on market value with a new lower priced option on the horizon ? is just that speculation, because it is just as likely to cause the value of the upper end products to go up, as down.

mcduffnw 11-10-2019 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JerryM (Post 6207640)
Been considering the purchase of a Bourgeois Om one of my favorite makers, but feeling a bit uneasy about the future resale value if I decide to part with it later. Anyone else nervous about the future value of current USA models once the market gets hit with the Chinese models? From what I have found on the subject and reading the site info these new models will carry the Bourgeois name which concerns me a bit as the current om is not cheap, way over 5k and if new ones are floating around at half that next year may be a tough sell.
All procrastination but concerning and making my decision harder, I never make money on a resell and realize depreciation is reality but makes me nervous. Maybe nothing to worry about.:)


Jerry what you really have to worry about is that all the boomer men, like you and I, are getting older and aging out of the market. That is what is gonna make re-selling ANY boutique/luthier level guitar ever so much tougher in the years ahead.

The only thing you really need to worry about is a Cascadia Subduction Zone 'quake rocking your...and my...world before we "check outta here" {;-)


duff
Be A Player...Not A Polisher

hairpuller 11-10-2019 08:20 AM

I recently purchased a used Bourgeois OM and I couldnít be happier !
If for some reason I do sell it sometime down the road I should be able to recoup most if not all of my money. This is a fantastic OM, so I donít see that happening.

Best of luck!
Scott

jaymarsch 11-10-2019 08:25 AM

I have never purchased a guitar that I already knew that I would be selling. But, I have sold some of my guitars over the years and have mostly made money or broke even. I have lost money on a couple of transactions depending on the market and timing involved. It is not something you can always predict. I would say that if it is a source of worry for you then do not do it. Everyone has their own comfort level when it comes to these matters.

There are some good used guitars out there these days so you might explore that option first.

Best,
Jayne

justonwo 11-10-2019 08:38 AM

I wouldnít fret one iota about resale. Collings and Waterloo. Fender American series vs Mexican vs Squier. Historic Gibsons vs Epiphones. The ones made by Bourgeois will hold their value because guitar buyers know the difference.

It is important to note that, so far as I can tell, the guitars made as part of the collaboration will not necessarily be labeled Bourgeois. The press release didnít say what name will be used.

hamburg325 11-10-2019 08:41 AM

Do we even know that these Chinese guitars will be Bourgeois branded?

I do agree with Breedlove being a cautionary tale about how to ruin a brand when you try to be everything to all people.

KevWind 11-10-2019 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hamburg325 (Post 6207704)
Do we even know that these Chinese guitars will be Bourgeois branded?

I do agree with Breedlove being a cautionary tale about how to ruin a brand when you try to be everything to all people.

Actually I thought I read (cant find it now) that ones designed by Bourgeois, will be labeled "Bourgeois" (could be mistaken, or it was just speculation on the part of some article )

Curious what is it you think " happend" to, or why you think Breedlove is "ruined" exactly ? Given Breedlove Masterclass and USA made are more costly than ever before and are still selling ? And that their resale value was always low from the start, even before going offshore.

Tnfiddler 11-10-2019 08:50 AM

I was wondering the same thing when this merger was announced but then I realized that Iím not going to worry about it. I LOVE my Bourgeois and Iím amazed by it every time I play it. I have no plans on selling it and will pass it on to my kids when Iím gone and they can decide what they want to do with it.

6L6 11-10-2019 08:52 AM

Other than a Pre-War Martin D-45, I don't see guitars as much of a financial investment opportunity.

IMO, Chinese made Bourgeois guitars will not hold their value like an original made in the USA.

Many thought that Collings guitars would be more difficult to sell after the passing of Bill Collings and that ones built under his watchful eye would increase in value...

Neither thing happened. In fact, Collings RAISED their prices after Bill's passing and they are still selling very well indeed with no loss in the extremely high quality Bill demanded in his instruments.

You can save all of this worry by getting a nice Martin Authentic or Collings guitar that meets your sonic needs. Workmanship on both will be impeccable.

Basalt Beach 11-10-2019 08:57 AM

Jerry,

I have observed a pre-owned Bourgeois often sells for approximately sixty percent or more of it's original new purchase price, and please know there are definite exceptions to this discount amount for wood selection, age, HHG, condition, bindings, torrefication, etc. If you are buying new, you will already take a loss should you elect to resell.

Ask yourself, what do you realistically believe the potential discount below the current discount for a pre-owned Bourgeois due to the potential Eastman impact? Factor that impact into your years of ownership and enjoyment of playing the guitar which may be "the one" to determine that cost.

Presently, we have two Bourgeois OM's, a Slope D, and a SJ, and have no concerns for their resale value, breakeven or lose $, because we have throughly enjoyed them and will continue to do so. Best of luck in your decision...

brencat 11-10-2019 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JerryM (Post 6207640)
Been considering the purchase of a Bourgeois Om one of my favorite makers, but feeling a bit uneasy about the future resale value if I decide to part with it later. Anyone else nervous about the future value of current USA models once the market gets hit with the Chinese models? From what I have found on the subject and reading the site info these new models will carry the Bourgeois name which concerns me a bit as the current om is not cheap, way over 5k and if new ones are floating around at half that next year may be a tough sell.
All procrastination but concerning and making my decision harder, I never make money on a resell and realize depreciation is reality but makes me nervous. Maybe nothing to worry about.:)

I wouldnít be overly concerned, as the used market values may someday start to bifurcate into ďPre-Eastman/ EastmanĒ year Bourgeois. That said, there are no shortages of used/mint examples for sale, many of which come up here in our AGF classifieds. The financial hit from reselling a Bourgeois, Goodall, or Santa Cruz as the original owner is absolutely brutal. Let someone else take the first hit and buy used if you can.

RP 11-10-2019 09:07 AM

Is PRS suffering because they offer high-end electrics as well Pac Rim models?

JerryM 11-10-2019 09:09 AM

Thanks for the opinions on this, most pretty much mirror my thoughts, I am not purchasing with the intent to sell never have, but thru the years have parted with many and never made money to be sure, well aware of loss on new. The one I am interested in is discounted already even though new.
I have in the past had Bourgeois and they are on of my favorites. I guess when you compare to a new car purchase no danger..talk about loss, wow that's a whole other deal!
Was just curious about other folks impressions as I hate seeing more and more going over there and leaving the US workers left out but I guess that's the new world..thanks

JerryM 11-10-2019 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcduffnw (Post 6207671)
Jerry what you really have to worry about is that all the boomer men, like you and I, are getting older and aging out of the market. That is what is gonna make re-selling ANY boutique/luthier level guitar ever so much tougher in the years ahead.

The only thing you really need to worry about is a Cascadia Subduction Zone 'quake rocking your...and my...world before we "check outta here" {;-)


duff
Be A Player...Not A Polisher

. Aint' that da truth!!!!!:D

rwmct 11-10-2019 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevWind (Post 6207711)
Actually I thought I read (cant find it now) that ones designed by Bourgeois, will be labeled "Bourgeois" (could be mistaken, or it was just speculation on the part of some article )

Curious what is it you think " happend" to, or why you think Breedlove is "ruined" exactly ? Given Breedlove Masterclass and USA made are more costly than ever before and are still selling ? And that their resale value was always low from the start, even before going offshore.

When I think Breedlove now, I don't think boutique, higher end guitar. I think good quality imported mass market guitars. They make more affordable guitars that many people like a lot. IMO, they are undoubtedly a lesser brand than they were.

Yamaha makes expensive higher end guitars. But IMO, few people think of those when they think of the brand. They think the excellent value low end acoustics you see in every music store.

Earl49 11-10-2019 09:53 AM

Given the constant distinction of MIM versus MIA for Martin or Taylor guitars that many folks seem to fixate on, there likely will be a difference between them in terms of desirability. The Made in USA versions will likely always command some premium, or at least sell easier.

But as has been pointed out, used guitars do not hold their value well. You are lucky to get 50% of the new price when selling a prime example used. I say buy for sound, playability, sound, decoration and sound. Leave any worry about the future for later.

Haasome 11-10-2019 09:56 AM

First of all, many of us will have an opinion about the future prospects of DB guitars. However, the reality is that none of have a clue. So, given that, I guess it depends on why you are buying it. If you are buying a guitar because you really like it, then buy it. I’m not sure (based on facts) why you would not buy it. The playability and tone should drive your decision, not some imagined tangential outcome — IMO. My DB Signature OM is one of the best guitars I’ve played and I could care less about market forces when I’m using it to make music.

rokdog49 11-10-2019 09:56 AM

I canít see how the value of a Bourgeois built in the U.S. would ever be affected by a Chinese version one way or the other.

paulzoom 11-10-2019 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by budglo (Post 6207647)
Honestly I have never made a purchase based on resale value. Guitars are a really poor investment anyways.

What he said. It's like getting a pre-nup before marriage.:)

Methos1979 11-10-2019 10:19 AM

Eastman making Bourgeois guitars...

So, the new guitars would be under the Beastman name?!? It has a ring to it...

hamburg325 11-10-2019 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevWind (Post 6207711)
Actually I thought I read (cant find it now) that ones designed by Bourgeois, will be labeled "Bourgeois" (could be mistaken, or it was just speculation on the part of some article )

Curious what is it you think " happend" to, or why you think Breedlove is "ruined" exactly ? Given Breedlove Masterclass and USA made are more costly than ever before and are still selling ? And that their resale value was always low from the start, even before going offshore.

I've owned several American Breedloves, starting in the 90s. I loved them, and still do. Their higher end models, while being excellent instruments, suffer, I believe, from the perception that Breedlove is now much more of a lower-end guitar company. You can't be a Lexus and Toyota at the same time. Breedlove elected to go the mass-market Toyota route, hurting the value perceptions of their "Lexus" guitars.

KevWind 11-10-2019 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rwmct (Post 6207775)
When I think Breedlove now, I don't think boutique, higher end guitar. I think good quality imported mass market guitars. They make more affordable guitars that many people like a lot. IMO, they are undoubtedly a lesser brand than they were.

Ok that is your opinion
Didn't we already go through this in the other thread ?

Quote:

Yamaha makes expensive higher end guitars. But IMO, few people think of those when they think of the brand. They think the excellent value low end acoustics you see in every music store.
Ok perhaps with so with Yamaha but of course that is irrelevant, because Yamaha is not Breedlove, nore vise versa . That notion is falling into a typical "association fallacy" type argument

Quote:

Originally Posted by hamburg325 (Post 6207819)
I've owned several American Breedloves, starting in the 90s. I loved them, and still do. Their higher end models, while being excellent instruments, suffer, I believe, from the perception that Breedlove is now much more of a lower-end guitar company. You can't be a Lexus and Toyota at the same time. Breedlove elected to go the mass-market Toyota route, hurting the value perceptions of their "Lexus" guitars.

"Suffer" is a vague and ambiguous term. (have Breedloves sales of US made guitars gone down ?) And "suffer" is only your opinion. I have one Breedlove Masterclass and it does not seem to suffer at all. I guess I am at a loss to understand why someone would think their perception is automatically a general one.

And in point of fact the company can and is a Lexus and Toyota at the same . The analogy is pretty funny given that the Lexus division of Toyota is the largest selling "premium" vehicle produced in Japan


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