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-   -   Build Thread: Circa OM Adi Spruce and Madagascar RW (https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=288812)

FormerFoodie 04-27-2014 11:57 AM

I'm the latest member of the John Slobod Appreciation Society. I just nabbed a new-to-me OM28 that is superlative in every way possible. The thing that kills me is that even though this guitar is exactly what I was hoping for in my next guitar, I find myself thinking: "Hmmm... I don't have a OO. Maybe John can build me one..." :D

Congrats on the upcoming build. Look forward to seeing your build pics and posts, as always.

vicov 04-27-2014 12:45 PM

Another John Slobod fan here. Here is my OOO-12c. Perfect in its aesthetic simplicity & the tone.....

http://i325.photobucket.com/albums/k...ae5179b5dc.jpg

usb_chord 05-07-2014 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vicov (Post 3930030)
Another John Slobod fan here. Here is my OOO-12c. Perfect in its aesthetic simplicity & the tone.....

http://www.theacousticmusicco.co.uk/...a-guitars.html

...Same one?

justonwo 08-23-2015 06:09 PM

It appears that my build slot has come up after 2.5 years. My tastes, thinking, and collection have evolved somewhat since I originally played John's ebony backed 00-12 at HGF 2011. I've landed on a very traditional OM build - adi top and Madagascar RW back and sides. I've asked John simply to build his best pre-war OM.

A first for John, I think, we are going to attempt a style 30 design using some colorful purflings. This was inspired by Howard Klepper's use of style 30 on my Schoenberg as well as a Klepper OM-33 I played.

I think the build will begin in the next week or so. I just need to select a set of back and sides (I'm going for simple straight grain, quarter sawn) and a back strip and we're off to the races.

jmagill 08-24-2015 03:20 AM

So, now you're onto something like this? I'm sure you'll love it.

http://www.magills.net/Assets/33/33front.jpg http://www.magills.net/Assets/33/33back.jpg

TomB'sox 08-24-2015 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justonwo (Post 4613022)
It appears that my build slot has come up after 2.5 years. My tastes, thinking, and collection have evolved somewhat since I originally played John's ebony backed 00-12 at HGF 2011. I've landed on a very traditional OM build - adi top and Madagascar RW back and sides. I've asked John simply to build his best pre-war OM.

A first for John, I think, we are going to attempt a style 30 design using some colorful purflings. This was inspired by Howard Klepper's use of style 30 on my Schoenberg as well as a Klepper OM-33 I played.

I think the build will begin in the next week or so. I just need to select a set of back and sides (I'm going for simple straight grain, quarter sawn) and a back strip and we're off to the races.

Congats on the "almost" start of the build...that is a long wait, I can't imagine as I thought 6 months lasted forever for me. I hope you have lots of fun with the build and it comes out exactly as you have been imagining it to be.

CoolerKing 08-24-2015 07:41 AM

I suppose you don't need me to tell you that I'm a big fan of the builders inspired by Martin's golden era work, and John is no exception. I'm pretty excited for you!

justonwo 08-24-2015 04:11 PM

The top purfling will look like this, although we may put a half herringbone on either side to make a zipper. Howard Klepper was kind enough to donate this amazing purfling since I'm a former customer. Thanks very much, Howard!

This is my Klepper/Schoenberg.

http://jus-tone.com/misc/klepper/Sch...000-12-006.jpg

We may end up making it look like this.

http://jus-tone.com/misc/klepper/Klepper_OM-33-008.jpg

rlxnply 08-27-2015 08:16 PM

That would look sweet. I like a traditional herringbone but that added color looks really cool. I have a build with John that is still a ways out but am torn on a German/Mad Rose vs German/Hog OM so I will be watching this one closely. Keep the updates and pictures coming!

CoolerKing 08-28-2015 01:11 AM

From Robert Corwin's site about some of the more unusual Martin styles:

http://vintagemartin.com/styles27_30_34.html

justonwo 10-14-2015 12:16 AM

John and I had one of many long conversations we've had over the years today. He's fun to talk to and generous with his time. We nailed down the final specs for my guitar, which he will start as soon as the backstrip arrives.

For the most part, it will be a Style 30/34 hybrid, with a few minor changes for my specific tastes.

Model: OM with Venetian cutaway
Top: Red spruce
Back and sides: Madagascar rosewood
Rosette: Style 34 with inner/outer rings and and a pearl in the middle
Backstrip: Style 30/34 (from Howard Klepper, thanks!)
Binding: Ivoroid
Purfling: Style 30/34 (from Howard Klepper, thanks!)
Back purfling: Black with maple line
Side purfling: None
Endgraft: Ivoroid, boxed with end pin
Neck: Solid mahogany, medium C profile with EVO gold fret wire (tall and wide!)
Headstock: Solid
Head plate: Dark Brazilian with torch inlay
Nut width: 1 3/4"
Saddle spacing: 2 5/16"
Fretboard inlay: Style 42 snowflake
Fretboard binding: Ivoroid
Head binding: Ivoroid with black/white line
Tuners: Nickel Waverly
Bridge: Ebony belly
Bridge pins: Bone
Pick guard: Small tear drop
Coffee case

I've given John no real input on the sound other than to ask him to build with his favorite vintage Martin inspired sound and response. And we have decided to build with no truss rod.

Here is a picture of the Madagascar rosewood set . . .

http://jus-tone.com/misc/circa/Madrose_Set2.jpg

mikealpine 10-14-2015 06:19 AM

What is the advantage of no truss rod?

justonwo 10-14-2015 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikealpine (Post 4675387)
What is the advantage of no truss rod?

I should correct my statement. It will have a truss rod (graphite) but the truss rod won't be adjustable. The main advantage is light weight and a more balanced feel (not neck heavy). Maybe there are tonal benefits but it would be hard to say (at least for me). I've owned two guitars with non-adjustable rods and love the feather weight.

iim7V7IM7 10-14-2015 09:08 AM

I had (rightly or wrongly) understood the use of neck reinforcements (e.g. ebony, T-bar, carbon fiber etc.) to be different than a "truss-rod" in terms of their purpose. Carbon fiber serves to stiffen the neck to resist the load of the strings. A truss rod not only provides stiffness, but also provides a method for establishing adjustment for relief. I have guitars where the neck is both reinforced with CF inserts and has an adjustable TR system to vary the relief as needed. Relief seems to be a fugitive attribute over time and with seasonal changes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by justonwo (Post 4675519)
I should correct my statement. It will have a truss rod (graphite) but the truss rod won't be adjustable. The main advantage is light weight and a more balanced feel (not neck heavy). Maybe there are tonal benefits but it would be hard to say (at least for me). I've owned two guitars with non-adjustable rods and love the feather weight.


justonwo 10-14-2015 10:14 AM

No, a truss rod is anything added to stabilize the neck. It can be adjustable or not.

Howard Klepper 10-14-2015 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iim7V7IM7 (Post 4675580)
I had (rightly or wrongly) understood the use of neck reinforcements (e.g. ebony, T-bar, carbon fiber etc.) to be different than a "truss-rod" in terms of their purpose. Carbon fiber serves to stiffen the neck to resist the load of the strings. A truss rod not only provides stiffness, but also provides a method for establishing adjustment for relief. I have guitars where the neck is both reinforced with CF inserts and has an adjustable TR system to vary the relief as needed. Relief seems to be a fugitive attribute over time and with seasonal changes.

The Gibson style tension rod can only be shoehorned with difficulty into the definition what a mechanical engineer would call a 'truss,' and then only if it is a straight rod (so it will work as a "two-force" member), which is not the way Gibson makes them. A dual action rod falls outside the engineer's definition. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truss

As with other terms for guitar parts (e.g., "volute," "kerfing"), it's likely a losing battle to try to make the guitar language consistent with what the rest of the world says; and so the confusion about what is and is not a 'truss rod' will continue. My own preference is to use the terms "neck reinforcement" and "adjustable neck reinforcement." But fighting semantic battles has gotten into the "life's too short" category. If this can be a truss

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/i...-IESIkIHPzD6cA

then I guess so can this

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/i...wTv6RvJ2dB9GyA

mikealpine 10-14-2015 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justonwo (Post 4675519)
I should correct my statement. It will have a truss rod (graphite) but the truss rod won't be adjustable. The main advantage is light weight and a more balanced feel (not neck heavy). Maybe there are tonal benefits but it would be hard to say (at least for me). I've owned two guitars with non-adjustable rods and love the feather weight.

Thanks for clarifying. If the rod is not adjustable, how is the neck adjusted for humidity changes, string tension change, etc.? Not questioning your choice, just curious as to how it works when you can't adjust a truss rod.

Congrats on this, by the way!

Diamondave 10-14-2015 11:23 AM

Truss or no truss, that's a KILLER set of Maddy Yo! Lol...

justonwo 10-14-2015 01:00 PM

You make the neck stuff enough that you don't really see changes. And you own a guitar in an area where the weather doesn't change much.

iim7V7IM7 10-14-2015 01:25 PM

Howard made me laugh! (as usual).

iim7V7IM7 10-14-2015 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justonwo (Post 4675848)
You make the neck stuff enough that you don't really see changes. And you own a guitar in an area where the weather doesn't change much.

Forgetting the nomenclature (and underwear!), John is going to build you a FABULOUS guitar. I look forward to seeing it come to life here...:up:

justonwo 10-14-2015 01:44 PM

I prefer Lateral Deflection Reduction Neck Insert (LDRNI), but no one ever seems to understand what I'm talking about.

mikealpine 10-14-2015 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justonwo (Post 4675848)
You make the neck stuff enough that you don't really see changes. And you own a guitar in an area where the weather doesn't change much.

Cool! Makes sense if your weather and neck are that consistent. It'll be nice to watch this as it develops. Thanks!

justonwo 10-14-2015 02:50 PM

I've currently own a guitar with a non-adjustable neck reinforcement made by the man himself (Howard Klepper), who was also kind enough to supply the purflings for this project (thanks again!). I also owned for a while a Montuoro with a non-adjustable neck reinforcement.

If done right, these things really don't move. My guitars with adjustable neck reinforcement do occasionally require a tweak here and there, but the non-adjustable guitars seem perfectly stable. I know those who build in this style have a pretty high level of confidence the necks will be stable, and I would argue (and I think Howard would agree) that most people would be perfectly happy within pretty narrow band of relief settings.

John has built several guitars with non-adjustable rods, and they've all been very stable. By the way, if absolutely necessary, they can be adjusted very precisely via Plek so it's not like you are totally out of luck if something comes up. I had this discussion with Lewis Santer, and he explained how a Plek can mill the frets with the neck under tension to give you precisely the relief that you desire.

J.R. Rogers 10-14-2015 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justonwo (Post 4614043)
The top purfling will look like this, although we may put a half herringbone on either side to make a zipper. Howard Klepper was kind enough to donate this amazing purfling since I'm a former customer. Thanks very much, Howard!

This is my Klepper/Schoenberg.

http://jus-tone.com/misc/klepper/Sch...000-12-006.jpg

We may end up making it look like this.

http://jus-tone.com/misc/klepper/Klepper_OM-33-008.jpg

Those are both beautiful. I like how the first one looks with the sunburst though. Congrats on finally getting your build underway, Juston! Looking forward to the progress.

JR

CoolerKing 10-14-2015 04:44 PM

Howard: How is it that I have gone through life and never had the eureka moment of truss rod and hernia truss? I feel enlightened! :)

Add another to the list of converts to non-adjustable necks. The old Martin I have is rock solid with a steel T bar. Additionally, I've never adjusted the truss rod in any guitar I've had. Maybe I'm missing out. Of course, that's a low sample size, and I've seen examples of out of whack relief. Ymmv IMHO etc.

Juston, stellar choice! Count me jealous. After my recent escapades, I'm very much looking forward to following along.

justonwo 10-14-2015 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diamondave (Post 4675734)
Truss or no truss, that's a KILLER set of Maddy Yo! Lol...

It's funny that you chose the word, KILLER, because that's the word John uses when he gets really excited about a set of wood. I can almost hear him saying it . . .

justonwo 10-14-2015 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by matthewpartrick (Post 4676105)
Howard: How is it that I have gone through life and never had the eureka moment of truss rod and hernia truss? I feel enlightened! :)

Add another to the list of converts to non-adjustable necks. The old Martin I have is rock solid with a steel T bar. Additionally, I've never adjusted the truss rod in any guitar I've had. Maybe I'm missing out. Of course, that's a low sample size, and I've seen examples of out of whack relief. Ymmv IMHO etc.

Juston, stellar choice! Count me jealous. After my recent escapades, I'm very much looking forward to following along.

Funny enough, the hernia truss rod never became popular.

Related to the truss rod-less discussion, I sure miss my Montuoro 000-12.

justonwo 11-05-2015 05:51 PM

Back plates are joined. The process has begun!

http://jus-tone.com/misc/circa/Circa_OM-1.jpg

CoolerKing 11-06-2015 05:32 PM

Any naphtha photos? :)


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