Now you know, dont do any business there. If they cheat in one area they will in another.

Can't add much more than, yep sounds like you took it in the shorts.

A Yelp review can be a pretty powerful tool. I had some work done on a motorcycle a couple of years ago. They really messed it up and it took me a few weeks to figure out what all was done and get it wright again.

I posted a Yelp review that was not very flattering. Went through everything that I went through to correct it. I did state that in my opinion their business license should be pulled because it was unsafe to ride. It was screwed up so bad I refused to let them touch it again.

They are now out of business. Not because of my review alone. It was my review along with all the others with a similar experience.

You may be stuck but a review along with others with a bad experience may hold some weight.

I kind of liked what Jaybee1404 was thinking in his post:
https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...1&postcount=18

...where the shop got their 25% of the $2k, $500, and maybe you paid 10% tax, or $50, for that, their consignment service.

And yes, I can think of two very large, and well-respected shops that command a 25% consignment fee.

Trading it in would have gotten me $1000, maybe. On CL, maybe $1800. It is a numbered Limited Edition LP Standard, so while still a Standard

PM sent

OK Vin, thanks. It hasn’t come through yet, but when it does I’ll check it out and PM you back.

I’m puzzled, is all!

US tax rules are entirely different here than in UK or EU. We do not have VAT or IVA as in Mexico (same thing, only 16% on each step of the transaction). In the US, sales tax (until now) has been entirely local (county and city and sometimes state). Here IT IS ONLY APPLIED ON THE FINAL RETAIL SALE. Sometimes sales tax is charged at the wholesale level and when that happens it usually modifies or eliminates the tax at the retail level. Let's use a car sale for example to show another difference. If you buy a car for $50,000 and trade in your old car for $20,000 you only pay tax on the $30,000 difference. The buyer of the used car will again pay sales tax on the used car retail price. But here in Illinois that is only fairly recent as used cars used to be tax free.

In the county in which both the store and I are in, we have a 10% sales tax which the buyer pays. The consignor's fiduciary responsibility is to pay that amount to the county. We did not have a written contract as I thought the percentage was clear and I have never ever heard of commission being charged on tax.

I'll PM you with the details.

I disagree. You’re ignoring the fact that the tax is already accounted for ($200) which came out of the buyer’s pocket. You’re taxing him again ($50).

The agreement was simple: 25% commission of the sales price (inferring 75% goes to the owner of the guitar). The issue here is what is the sales price. The store owner is clearly treating $2,200 as the sales price. Thus, 75% ($1,650) should be going to the guitar’s owner.

I think the obvious and simplest way (and what is expected) is 25%/75% of $2000.

Vin, I think where some confusion lies is did you receive 75% of that extra $200?

I would agree that taking commission from the tax doesn't seem fair. That said, I would be much more appalled by the store not telling you when they sold your guitar. I would not give them the benefit of the doubt on that one. You don't just 'forget' to let your customer know when you sell their $2,000 consignment guitar. I wonder whether they secretly hoped YOU would forget about the guitar, so they could pocket the entire sum.

I must say I don't understand the concept of consignment to begin with. Why would I as a buyer consider a used guitar at 25% markup over market value (what I would pay on Reverb, for example)?

No, the store doesn't charge 25% over market. The seller sets the price they want to get, and the store takes 15-25% of that price. It can definitely be worth it, a company like Elderly is likelier to get buyers for a high-end guitar than "just some guy on the internet" is.

But you (and others) are ignoring the fact that there are two transactions going on, but only one concerns the seller from a tax POV.....

1) The sale of the guitar to the purchaser, $2,000
2) The sale of services (acting as the middle-man) to the seller, $500

I’m assuming that both transactions are subject to sales tax. The tax on the guitar is purely a matter for the purchaser and the store, it’s irrelevant to the seller - as he neither receives it, nor has to pay it on to IR it doesn’t enter into the calculations of the amounts due to himself. The tax on the commission, however, is payable by the seller, as the store’s customer for its services.

So my original numbers stand as far as the seller is concerned...

Sale of the guitar - 2,000
Less: 25% commission. (500)
10% tax on commission. (50)
Net due to seller. 1,450

I know for certain I’m right where this deal would be concerned here in the UK, and I’m reasonably confident, although not absolutely, that it’s the same over there in the US.

Check it out here - https://smallbusiness.chron.com/tax-...ore-72057.html

I worked as the accountant for the British branch of a US-based company for thirteen years 1999-2012, so I do understand that tax rules can differ from state to state. I’m assuming here that commissions on consignment sales are subject to sales tax in IL. If not, then my numbers are knocked into a cocked-hat, and I’ll have to eat Humble Pie!

It’s very interesting, isn’t it? :up:

And, as always, the usual disclaimers apply......IMHO, YMMV etc.

Seems to me in that case you’re taking 27.5% which was more than the agreed upon amount. Very interesting though.

Yes, that’s correct - 25% commission plus 10% (of 25%) tax. That should have been made clear in the agreement between the seller and the store but, even if it wasn’t, the store is bound by the tax rules and must charge it.

In fact, the store isn’t actually ‘taking 27.5%’ because the 2.5% (10% of 25%) has to be included in their tax return, so they only ‘take’ the 25% into their earnings.

But of course this all depends on my assumptions being correct about US/IL tax regulations. I’d be very happy if another accountant-member came along who could confirm or, alternatively, give us the definitive answer.

The way I see it, the SALE was between the buyer and the consignor (on my behalf). The tax was between the buyer and the taxing body and the consignor in accepting the tax was an agent of the taxing body and the tax should not have impacted the commission he charged.

Let's look at a parallel... A realtor acts as a sales agent for someone selling a home. They agree to a 6% commission....And when closing, even there is a laundry list of taxes and feesl, the commission is ONLY paid on the sale price of the home. I see this as no different.

Jaybee: I definitely see your point. In ‘form’ you are doing what you are legally allowed to do, passing on your sales tax ($50) to the guitar owner but in ‘substance’ it’s underhanded because that is not what the customer is expecting—-75% of $2,000. If someone tells me they are taking 25% from me, I don’t expect 27.5%. If so, the store owner should’ve said “25% +tax”.

I sold several guitars under consignment and got my expected %, no contracts needed. So glad I dealt with reasonable and honest people who kept their word and didn’t use underhanded tactics.

Vindibona1: agreed, simple.