I have A set of copper finish/snakewood button GrandTunes them on one of my guitars from Bruce. They look and work great!

http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/...ps3av1h0lz.jpg

I think Bruce uses them because he likes the "S"! :)

Gotoh recently came out with an open back tuner that does have a screw in ferrule. Might be just the ticket for some. http://www.g-gotoh.com/international...product=sxn510

Those Gotoh tuners look like a good idea to me. Apparently, however, they rattle or something judging by this line in their advertising copy: "The improved performance and durability which the SX510 series provides, thanks to GOTOH’s unique design and manufacturing, gives you the chance to experience a sound you’ve never heard before." ;)

Grand tuners
 

I've liked almost every tuner I have had in the last 30-40 years. Probably because my first tuners were so awful, that anything was an improvement. An easy act to follow. The Shaller Grand Tuners are among my favorites, easy to use, accurate, and they hold well. They also were a good appearance choice in my case. But I didn't choose them specifically, but happily took whatever came with the guitar, perfectly happy that Bruce picked them.

Schallar Grand Tune
 

Love them. I have two Martin Custom shop guitars that came with cheap Martin open back tuners (Grover). (D-28 Cocobolo Adirondack Hide Glue, and Om-28 Guatemalan Rosewood, VTS Adirondack top, 2 of the best guitars I've ever owned). I opted for these because they are being used on Custom shop guitars and IMHO are smoother and easier to turn than Waverly tuners.

What is the best machine head for Waverly style replacements? Is the Rogers really the best (with no specs on ratios) or is the Schaller the best or is the good old Waverly the best you can get in this style?

I'm using Waverly tuners now on my Martin OM but the Gotoh 510s on my Taylors really seem to be a better tuner to me. Of course, the Gotohs will not fit on my braz Martin and I am not drilling new holes that is for sure! The Waverlys have a sort of overly tight feeling. In my mind it is the tuning ratio being better in the Gotohs. Although I recognize the fine craftsmanship of the Waverly's.

no traffic on this for a while...

has anybody been using the latest versions of these tuners? I am wondering if I should spec them on my upcoming McKnight build :D

I have used them on a few guitars, no issues and I really like the look of the vintage copper ones. They are not as smooth as a sealed gotoh 510, and the ratio is lower, but I think they are up there with the waverly.

I recently ordered three sets of the Grand Tune tuners direct from Schaller in Germany. I’m building a couple very special guitars for an upcoming show, and knowing Schaller’s generally sterling reputation, I fell hard for the exotic finishes and button options of the Grand Tune design. I’m usually a Gotoh guy, but I thought these Grand Tunes would work well on these new guitars.

Sad to say, all three sets are junk. I would use a more pungent word, but this Forum frowns on that.

Two of my Grand Tune sets are the slot-head type, and the other for solid headstock. I got the gorgeous Vintage Copper finish, the Ruthenium, and a set of Black with Mother-of-toilet-seat buttons. Very attractive looking tuners, no doubt about it.
But I did notice, every tuner in every set had at least 1/8 turn of slop in the mechanism. Oh well, Waverlys do that too. I figured they might snug up under string tension.

I mounted the Vintage Copper set on my BRW/Bearclaw Zephyr 00 slot—head guitar, and strung up. Right away, I noticed the slop was still there. And on the open G string, I got a loud sympathetic rattle at the headstock.None of the usual suspects- loose screws or bushings, sitar-ing at the nut, loose truss rod, etc.- were the problem. I could not locate the source of this rattle. And let me reiterate, it was LOUD.
I put the guitar aside to deal with later, and installed another set of the Grand Tunes on my quilted Maple/German Eclipse OM guitar.

Again, every tuner had an unacceptable amount of slop in the action, and they felt quite stiff when tuned to pitch. And AGAIN, on the open G string, that same loud rattle happened. ONLY on the open G string, not on open or fretted notes anywhere else.
This is on two different size guitars, different scale lengths, different headstock designs, and even different string sets. Same loud rattle on both open G strings.
I was not able to sleuth out the cause of that sympathetic rattle. Except that it was right there at the headstock. When I would press on the tuner gears, the rattle would diminish, but not go away.

The show is less than two weeks away, and I don’t have time for this annoying glitch. So I threw a Hail Mary pass to StewMac and ordered a couple sets of the Swiss-made Schertler tuners. I’ve used them before, and never had a bad tuner in a set. They are well made and accurate. And they look nice too.

Well, I just finished retro-fitting the Shertlers, and there is no slop, no rattle, just the silky smooth and accurate tuning I expect in a quality tuner. And without that sympathetic rattle, the guitars sound great!

I’m not sure what to do about those Schaller Grand Tunes. I spent almost $500 on three sets, and they are garbage. Yes, I am upset about it.
Anyway, that’s my $0.02 on the matter. I would greatly appreciate any other experience-based opinions or thoughts from others, who have used the Grand Tune tuners from 2018-2019. Did I just get three bad sets, and all the rest of them are fine? What gives here?

I would agree that the Schertlers are superior tuners, probably better than any other open back tuners on the market, but I have not had the experience you had with the GrandTune tuners. I think I have used 3 sets of GrandTune guitar tuners and many mandolin sets, and none have had any excessive slop or rattle problems. Maybe you got some early production sets that I have been told had some issues that were later fixed by Schaller.

I recently replaced a set of stock martin tuners with Gotoh SXN510V nickel finish, and the screw holes lined up fine. They are smooth and functional replacements for enclosed tuners.

Link to tuners: http://g-gotoh.com/international/product/sxn510v.html

Grand Tune, Not So Grand
 

Ordered an OM28 (reimagined standard series) from Martin, picked it up last Sept 2018. They're using these Schaller's. The 3rd, 4th and 5th string tuners became so hard to turn it was killing my fingers trying to tune. I have to lay the guitar on my lap in order to get enough torque to tune up. Putting new strings on practically destroyed my hands. They are being replaced by Martin this coming week, we'll see...

A few months ago, Peter wrote:

I haven't had any experience with Schaller GrandTune tuners, in large part because my own personal preference on guitar is for sealed gear tuners with lightweight wooden or plastic aftermarket buttons, not open geared. But I do have a set of Schertler open gear tuners on one instrument, and they're by far and away the best open gear guitar tuners I've dealt with. I have one guitar with Waverlys, which are nice, and have had open gear Gotoh and 18 to 1 gear ratio Grover tuners on other instruments. But the Schertlers are superior to all those.

The only other open gear tuners I own that work as smoothly and flawlessly as the Schertlers are the custom Rodgers set that I ordered for one of my mandolins.


Wade Hampton Miller

+1 for Schertler tuners. I use them on all my high end guitars.