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-   -   Dave's compact PA system adventures... (https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=460881)

martingitdave 03-12-2017 04:44 PM

Dave's compact PA system adventures...
 
I just finished 2 hours of rehearsal for tonight. This unit is 240 watts RMS (800 peak). The input gain on the mixer is set really well. Gotta be honest. I love how my vocals sound though this speaker. Although I don't anticipate needing more channels I'm curious how this unit will sound with a proper mixer. With my pedal summing up vocals and guitar into one XLR DI, I have a channel free for my daughter's mic.

I don't think the plastic boxes and connections are too road worthy, but it would probably hold up for one setup/tear down a week.


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Guest4562 03-12-2017 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny.guitar (Post 5264438)
Actually we each have an LC1. Not a lot of room in the corner of this particular pub and the Bose units were literally right beside us.
Had a bit of low end issues with my partners guitar but it was probably 12" from the sub.

I make sure I have a phase switch somewhere in the signal chain for this reason. I have one guitar that has one, the other two I run through a PADI, which does as well. That usually kills it right away.

leew3 03-12-2017 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NotValid (Post 5248050)
The Adventures of GAS part III.

As soon as I wrote the message above my wife looked at me and said "Your not ordering anything are you? You just got a guitar thingy for 400 bucks"
Well ****, there went my strategy riiiight out the window.
Guess I'll have to wait a bit longer, back to the drawing board/ Wifejitsu gym.

To be continued........

You just need to explain the subtle but vital difference between the sitka 'guitar thingy' you just got and the adirondack 'guitar thingy' you really need!

Davis Webb 03-12-2017 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martingitdave (Post 5263116)
I'm still considering options. I had written a long post about augmenting the Line 6 equipment. But after testing the setup with the mixer last night, I actually prefer the sound quality of the built in Line 6 mixer and speaker. The Yamaha mixer is great, but it needs a different speaker configuration to be most useful.

I'm going to hold off until I find a more compelling solution.

Can you get your hands on a Yorkville NX10 to try? I think you would like it. I have used it to rise above the roar of ice cream and food trucks in big venues, it weighs almost nothing, costs $500 and has 300 watts. Very nice sound. And you can stack and chain them if you want. No need for stereo, the audience will nay notice it....

If you can, try one. Its a Canadian brand.

martingitdave 03-12-2017 09:55 PM

Dave's compact PA system adventures...
 
I'll definitely check it out!

Edit: out of curiosity I took a look online. doesn't look like there is a dealer near me. But, that is a nifty looking speaker.


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martingitdave 03-13-2017 08:33 AM

Dave's compact PA system adventures...
 
While I have no immediate personal need for it, I got a good deal on eBay for a Behringer XR12 digital mixer. I'm interested in the multi effects for our club. Our mixer is ancient.

Eager to test it out against my Play Acoustic effects.

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Johnny.guitar 03-13-2017 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A-Mac (Post 5264988)
I make sure I have a phase switch somewhere in the signal chain for this reason. I have one guitar that has one, the other two I run through a PADI, which does as well. That usually kills it right away.



Ah yes. Very good point.
I'll have to figure out phase switches for both guitars :)

Cheers


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martingitdave 03-13-2017 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny.guitar (Post 5265699)
Ah yes. Very good point.
I'll have to figure out phase switches for both guitars :)

Cheers


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I have a switch 3 connected to my Play Acoustic and assign the third button to phase reverse. It convenient. My K&Ks have the Phase switch on the guitar. However, it's a little hard to get to.


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Johnny.guitar 03-13-2017 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martingitdave (Post 5265703)
I have a switch 3 connected to my Play Acoustic and assign the third button to phase reverse. It convenient. My K&Ks have the Phase switch on the guitar. However, it's a little hard to get to.


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Hmm. I've got a k&k and an M1 into a k&k stereo pre to blend them....then into a Red Eye....none of which has phase control....
My partner just plugs into the board with some kind of active ust system. He doesn't know of any phase switch on his guitar but there may be one.
Not sure what my simplest options might be.
Could go with a different di, maybe LR bags or something with phase control.
I've got some ART tube pre's with phase switches in a pinch. I am trying to keep things relatively simple.


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martingitdave 03-13-2017 11:23 AM

It's worth checking the manual on his active pickup. Most factory systems come with the phase control. I think A number of preamps include the phase switch. Surprised to learn the Red eye does not.


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earri 03-13-2017 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martingitdave (Post 5265668)
While I have no immediate personal need for it, I got a good deal on eBay for a Behringer XR12 digital mixer. I'm interested in the multi effects for our club. Our mixer is ancient.

Eager to test it out against my Play Acoustic effects.

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Patiently awaiting your review of the Behringer XR12 digital mixer.

martingitdave 03-13-2017 12:03 PM

Dave's compact PA system adventures...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by earri (Post 5265928)
Patiently awaiting your review of the Behringer XR12 digital mixer.



Patience is the right word. Even when I get it, I suspect it will take a while to work the DPS effects out. I have to try and deconstruct what the TC Play Acoustic is doing for vocal and guitar processing, and attempt to replicate in the XR12.

The manual gave me a headache just reading the synopsis of the effects. I get the impression it's a full studio quality system that works for live use.

My goal will be to generate some scenes for acoustic solo, duo, and trio acts.

From what I've read, there are two high z inputs for guitars and bass, so no direct boxes are required, and it saves two mic channels. I'll leave the 4 XLRs for vocal and/or instrument mics. Typically, we setup with 2 SM58s and 2 SM57s. That's why I figured I could get away with the 12 channel unit.

The other area that has me intrigued is MIDI control. It should be fun.

earri 03-13-2017 12:23 PM

I'm seriously considering that unit for a duo, (2 vocal mics, 2 guitars) with the ability to expand to include another vocal mic, bass, and perhads one condenser mic an/or another guitar input. I'm curious about ease/difficulty of ipad control.

I'l be patient.

martingitdave 03-13-2017 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by earri (Post 5265978)
I'm seriously considering that unit for a duo, (2 vocal mics, 2 guitars) with the ability to expand to include another vocal mic, bass, and perhads one condenser mic an/or another guitar input. I'm curious about ease/difficulty of ipad control.

I'l be patient.

These have been around a while, but I also always get interested in the new toys. In this case, it might actually do us some real good. If our sound person ends up wanting to stay low tech, I'll just keep it for myself. Sounds like it would be good for you.

I've scoured the internet, but I can't find the kind of tutorial I'm looking for. I'd love a step by step guide to replicate the TC mic mechanic (IIRC EQ, de-essing, gate, compressor) and body rez (IIRC para EQ, compressor, filter) features with this unit. With that information, you could program it once, label the inputs, and leave it alone. The only thing you might want are additional guitar stomp box effects. They have tons of them already built in. But, as I understand it, they can only be remote controlled with a midi foot switch. I believe the unit will do 8 mono effects or 4 stereo. I don't need stereo. I can live with one chorus/delay pedal, if needed, when I can just plug everything in direct and go.

martingitdave 03-13-2017 08:51 PM

Dave's compact PA system adventures...
 
For those interested, the MLS800 has (6) 2.75" drivers in the array. They are angled 30 degrees off the center axis. This should, in theory, give you something close to 150 degrees coverage. No idea if that's true. My rec room isn't big enough to test.

Also the x-over point is 200Hz for the sub and 180Hz for the array. So there is a 20Hz overlap that could, according to Cuki's theory, be out of phase up close. If so, I haven't noticed in my reasonably loud rehearsal, or with recorded music. Maybe that's how they solved it.

Lastly, to correct some previous information, the unit weighs 39 lbs total. The sub is 28 lbs with a decent handle. The tops are 11 lbs and have a nice shoulder/carry bag. So you're not lifting 40 plus lbs from the floor, at once.

Like I said above, the road worthiness of this is suspect. The pots and knobs are kind of cheap and the plastic connectors aren't too impressive. However, for light use, they will work fine.

I suspect the Music Group's largest (60 lb) Turbosound iP2000 product would be more road worthy because the cabinet is made of birch plywood. I didn't need the 1,000 watt (16 x 2.75" and 1 x 12") system, however. The (54 lb) iP1000 (8 x 2.75, 2 x 8") would be comparable in price to the Harbinger, but would presumably hold up better.

Oddly enough, the Turbosound iP500 appears to be a step down from the Harbinger. They share the same number of speakers, but they are smaller: (6 x 2.0" and 1 x 8"), and they share the ABS construction. The IP500 only claims 100 deg horizontal coverage. The MLS800 has about 25% more power (RMS) and bi-amped class D amplifier. The iP500 uses a class D for the sub and class AB amp for the array. The Harbinger also has more direct control. They weight close to the same. The iP500 comes with a cover and costs $200 less retail. It seems like the iP500 would be the lowest cost/value winner. The iP2000 would be one of the most powerful of the compact line arrays. It does appear some sort of mixer, or iPad is needed.

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