Need recommendations for a decent nylon - $2,000 budget
 

I am in the market for decent classical guitar. My budget is $2,000. It will be for serious hobbyist. :)
Been playing electric and acoustic for about 20 years, but I figured it be a time to try out classical too. I might even take some lessons.

I went to every music store here in Louisville, KY and played every classical I could find, but most of them were cheap models (below $400) and did not sound that good. I also tried few Alhambras (all $2,000+) but wasn't impressed with them either. They just sounded too tiny with not much bass. It could be they had wrong strings on it, but I'm not sure. That's the extent of everything I could try without driving too far.

Tone I'm looking for is basically:
warm, rich, lush, sweet and complex, but not muddy.

I don't want tiny, harsh, bright, plucky (some flamingo guitars have that) or hallow.

Volume is not really important because I will not be preforming in halls. Just in my guitar room. Electronics are not a deal breaker. Prefer cutaway. 12 fret or 14 fret; don't matter.

I wanted to try of course some Ramirez and other classical, but no dealers in my area, so I'm not sure what do buy now and how to go about it. If anyone knows place near Louisville where they sell nice classical guitars, please let me know.

And I've hear nothing but bad things about Taylor NS series tone wise, so I am not really looking at those.

Any suggestions are appreciated.

After much searching - 3 Taylor NS's, a Godin ACS SA, Takamine TC135SC, and a coupla classicals - I finally settled on the Ovation 2073LX Classic. I know, I know, the back's not made of wood ... but seriously this is a quality guitar from top to bottom. It has the 1 7/8" nut width that we steel string players prefer, it has 12 frets to the neck (with cutaway) which I prefer, a solid cedar top, relatively low action for a nylon string, one of the best preamps on the market, and ... it sounds really good unplugged. For me, the unplugged sound is where many crossovers, particularly Taylor, fall short. In fact, although the guitar is hailed for its electric capabilities, 99% of the time I play it unplugged.

The cost is less than your maximum, and, oh yes, and it looks great, too!

Hi,
The sound qualities you mention that you're looking for tend to make me think of a true classical guitar rather than a crossover. In the price range you've mentioned some of the makers I'd consider looking at would be the estudio models of Manuel Rodriguez Jr., Kenny Hill, German Vazquez Rubio, Paulino Bernabe and Ramirez. One other place you might want to check out is Casa Montalvo, I've never played one of his guitars but I've read some pretty good reviews of them. Here are some links. http://www.berkeleymusic.com/flamenco.html , http://www.guitarsint.com/default.cfm , http://www.zavaletas-guitarras.com/
Good luck in your search.
Regards,
Ed

I knew I was going to hear from you on this. :)

Man, did not know Ovations can get up that high in price. I will definitely try to track down a deal here in Louisville or surrounding area. The only thing that might be a deal breaker is that 1 7/8 nut. I wanted a true classical 2mm nut, but we'll see, I'm not making any judgments until I play it.

How would you describe the tone (unplugged)?

PM sent. <><><>

Thanks for recommendation. Yeah, I'm thinking that I need true classical too. I don't want to spend that much money on crossover and find out within few months that I want true classical.
I've heard that unless you go Ramirez pro that their studio series are not that great. Is that true?

Give Tom a call at Gryphon Stringed Instruments. Take a look at the Cervantes & Kenny Hill guitars.

I sent OP a PM regarding my Estevé. Since you, unlike me, have experience with several brands of classical guitars, please post your candid opinion of Estevés, or even the 1GR08, if you happen to be familiar with it. (I believe the current version of the same guitar is simply Model 8.)

Personally I'd avoid Spanish-made instruments in that price range like the plague, especially from the big names.

Hill and Cervantes make excellent guitars at that price point. I prefer Hill, but to each his/her own.

Always glad to oblige ... ;)

Tone, now then, well ... kind of rich and chocolatey in the mids. It has nice deep bass and clear trebles.

However, if you can live with the classical nut width and neck, you are going to get a better tonal response from a pure classical. One that I had that was all-solid wood - rosewood and cedar - with great sound and a really great price was the Bulgarian Kremona company's Orpheus Valley Fiesta. I had one of these a year ago and only parted with it because of the nut width. These guitars are seriously underpriced - perhaps because they lack the kudos of Spain - but they are terrific value. Check out the Orpheus Valley website.

Man that Fiesta FC sounds like a really nice guitar for the price. I still got to find bad or neutral review. Everyone is raving about it. And you can't beat that price for handcrafted instrument. One reviewer said that this guitar would be well over $2,xxx is it was made in Spain or US.

Also checking out some Kenny Hill guitars.

The Ramirez guitars below their pro models like the 1A are not made in the Ramirez workshop. Over the years they've been made in various other shops in Spain to Ramirez specs. I had a Ramirez 2CWE at one time and have played a number of the different estudio models and for the most part liked their sound. I've been able to compare them to a mid 70's 1A I bought and the estudio's while nice aren't in the same league. That's true for most makers though. If you find a used Ramirez for a good price you may really want to consider it.

The workmanship on all the ones I've seen has been very good but new I think they're overpriced, I kind of think that is true of Ramirez guitars in general. Ramirez tend to have a higher action which some folks really don't like. If you can handle the longer scale and higher action Ramirez used from the 60's through 80's you might be able to find a used 1A for a very good price. They are often heavily discounted, that's how I ended up with mine.

In your price range I'd definitely look into the Kenny Hill guitars, especially the Munich, Madrid & La Curva. I've played all three and thought they were very good for the price. At some point I'll probably pick up a La Curva, it was a lot of fun to play.

Bluesbassdad, I'm not really familiar with the Esteve's. I looked a couple of their higher end ones in a shop probably 10 years ago that had the bridges pulling up, which kind of put me off them. These were brand new and had only been in the shop for a month or so. From what I've read of others reviews it is very likely the ones I saw were not the norm.

Regards,
Ed

Is there any Luthiers building classicals in USA in that price range?

Seriously, i've never played a factory made classical equivalent to a luthier built. No mather how cheap the luthier guitar was. And we also have Alhambras, Admiras and other "spanish made" brands here in Brazil. Of course they cost more here.

I think the diference between a handmade and factory-made classical is greater then in steel-string acoustics. You would very rarely see a professional classical guitarist playing a guitar that is not handbuilt.
If you could find a used one, that could be a nice deal on a true classical.

But of course that is just my experience/opinion and i must be very biased :D
Also, i dont know the North American classical guitar market well enough.

Ah, the Ramirez I played didn't impressed me at all, but i dont even remeber what model it was. I do remember I found it WAY overpriced and it was bought in Spain.

I seriously doubt that there are luthiers in USA for that price range. Kenny Hill is one, but his lower end models are not build by him in his shop. At least that is what I read.
I do agree that hand built classical are lot better, even from less known luthiers. Two days ago I've played probably 6 Alhambra guitars. Most of them $2,000+ price range and then I played one hand build by some Mexican luthier. It was under $1,000 and was pretty beat up, but that guitar sounded whole lot better then any other I've tried.
As of now I am seriously considering Kremona Fiesta FC (on ewalling recommendation) It's handcrafted by Bulgarian luthier and I could not find one bad or even neutral review. All excellent. There are few dealers in US and most of them have buy on approval (some 45 days). Plus it is almost three times less than my budget.

Yes, I would think twice about buying a Ramirez. I think a large portion of the cost would go towards simply having that name on the headstock. I played a CWE some years ago, which was very nice, but hoo boy what a price tag!