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-   -   000 14fret shortscale acoustic build. (https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=522354)

charles Tauber 11-02-2018 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPerezRoig (Post 5879212)
Thank you Charles!
I didn't know of an 000 or om sized guitar with single side and bottom braces. Do you have some examples to share?

If I'm not mistaken, 00-21's were made with single braces. The one I made, nearly 40 years ago, has single braces and has held up well and sounded very good.


Quote:

As per the bridge plate, i thought its sole purpose was to protect the top from the string ends, and for that reason I made it smaller.
I guess different people have different "theories" of what the bridge plate contributes to the instrument. My preferred theory is that it functions as a brace, adding stiffness to the area, particularly some resistance to bellying behind the bridge (i.e. between the bridge and butt end of the guitar), particularly adjacent to the bridge. There is also a belief that stiffening the area reduces the "peeling" action of the bridge from the top.

If the sole purpose of the bridge plate was to protect the top from string ends, little more than a hard ring would be required around each hole.

FPerezRoig 11-03-2018 05:11 AM

I definitely don't want this to happen. What do you think about this bridge plate ?

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e1...ps7o3tjysg.jpg

The 00-21 is somewhat smaller than the 000, will it be still safe to use single braces?

Cheers,
Fran

mirwa 11-03-2018 06:46 AM

Yes bridge plates and need for them, can be an interesting discussion, I am off the camp, you only need them large enough to prevent string ball damage to the underside of the top.

Large bridge plates can be utilised in the building process to reduce bridge rotation if that’s what you so desire.

However, bridge rotation is a necessary evil, too much and the bridge will pull of the top or distort the top, too little and the instrument sounds dead and lifeless.

When I personally experiment with new bracing ideas, I don’t close the box but have a temporary back installed, the tailblock and neck block are connected with a single steel bar during this process, I then string up and measure bridge rotation, if happy I remove internal bar and close the box, if unhappy I continue modifying braces and measure rotation again.

I have seen many guitars with top mount strings that have no bridgeplates at all and these play extremely well.


Steve

charles Tauber 11-03-2018 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPerezRoig (Post 5880108)
What do you think about this bridge plate ?

I'd probably make it a little smaller, closer to 2".

Quote:

The 00-21 is somewhat smaller than the 000, will it be still safe to use single braces?
Probably. If you are more comfortable with two, make them short. I was shocked at how small (short) the two side braces were on a small Martin I examined not too long ago.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mirwa (Post 5880154)
I have seen many guitars with top mount strings that have no bridgeplates at all and these play extremely well.

Which speaks to the fact that there are many viable ways/arrangements that can be used to make a good instrument.

My suggestions were aimed at the traditional bracing arrangement the OP is using.

FPerezRoig 11-04-2018 04:19 AM

Thank you both!!

I think I'd better be on the safe side in my first build, so I will go for the more traditional arrangement , as per Charles suggestions.

Glad to hear this is an area of possible experimentation in successive builds, though.

Regarding the side and bottom braces, I think I'll go double, shorter braces.

Cheers!!
Fran

Monsoon1 11-04-2018 05:32 AM

The woodgrain is gorgeous! Great looking build all around.
Best of luck!

FPerezRoig 11-04-2018 01:05 PM

Cheers! Cant wait to strum it!!

printer2 11-04-2018 07:37 PM

What you do not want is for the bridge plate top and bottom edge to line up with the bridge edges, this would create a stress riser.

FPerezRoig 11-05-2018 09:43 AM

Understood, thanks Fred.

FPerezRoig 12-19-2018 11:25 AM

Hi guys,
Been a while... I'm about to have my first son, and have been kinda busy lately. Anyway, I got some time to work on the guitar, and would like to show you my progress and drop a couple of questions ;)

Unfortunately, a piece of furniture fell upon the guitar back and cracked it in two parts. Had to choose another rosewood back that would match the sides I already have and start over again. I took the oportunity to change the backstrip design to match the sides and top binding.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e1...pse9dkjkqp.png
Now, I have both back and top braced, still have to clean them a little from glue marks and carve the top x brace.

I sanded the upper transverse brace flat, hoping that fingerboard installation will be easier that way. Is that a usual practice? Or is it just bad? Hope it's not too bad... read it somewhere and thought it would be a good idea.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e1...psdqgczsrk.png
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e1...psdypzag4i.png

What do you think about this bracing pattern? Would you modify it somehow?
A quick picture of my bracing process... I really need a proper workshop :)

https://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e...psicjcultq.png

I'm about to round the soundhole's edge next, how do you guys do it?

Thank you!!
Merry Christmas to all,
Fran

ruby50 12-19-2018 11:55 AM

Doing good - bracing looks fine. Have you considered a popsicle brace. Great idea for a go-bar deck for those that only build a couple a year. Would work great under a workbench and take up no shop space.

Ed

charles Tauber 12-19-2018 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPerezRoig (Post 5923570)
What do you think about this bracing pattern? Would you modify it somehow?

I'd make the 4 finger braces in the lower bout longer, to the edges of the pattern, then either let them into the linings or feather them to nothing near the linings.

My experience on my own instruments has taught me to scallop the upper transverse brace starting closer to the sides, removing less wood. It's an important structural brace.


Quote:

I'm about to round the soundhole's edge next, how do you guys do it?
I'd suggest you leave it until final sanding. I use sandpaper over a half-round file. The treatment of the edge of the sound hole depends, in part, on what happens with the end of your fingerboard. I always extend the fingerboard to the edge and contour of the sound hole and don't want that portion of the sound hole edge rounded.

Halcyon/Tinker 12-19-2018 02:49 PM

A flat UTB can work in the right circumstances, if it works with your overall geometry. Without knowing what that is, we can't know whether a flat UTB is helpful or not. I personally don't know the circumstances in which a flat UTB is correct as I use a radiused one in my system...

FPerezRoig 12-20-2018 05:29 AM

Thank you guys!

Will follow your suggestions Charles, Would leaving finger braces like this cause stability problems?

Quote:

Have you considered a popsicle brace.
Not a traditional popsicle Ed, but I guess I'll be adding this (didn't glue it yet).

https://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e...psvchlr42y.png

Glad you liked my gobar deck, I try to cut expenses as much as possible in jigs etc, being my first guitar build.

Quote:

A flat UTB can work in the right circumstances, if it works with your overall geometry. Without knowing what that is, we can't know whether a flat UTB is helpful or not
Could you be more specific Halcyon/Tinker? What do you mean by overall geometry?
Do some of you sand flat the UTB?

Cheers,
Fran

charles Tauber 12-20-2018 06:49 AM

Leaving the finger braces shorter probably is fine


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